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We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

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Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#41
I'm coming to suspect that even our data isn't enough for useful AI. Imagine you had a truly general sci-fi AI at your office. It still couldn't just look at your database and answer a simple question like "What was the difference in client churn rates between mobile and desktop last month?" or "What was the effect of experiment 1234 on per-client revenue?" Hell, a human couldn't do it. As far as the human or AI would know, you just presented it with a bunch of random tables. This matters because it's incredibly helpful to know which pieces are randomized. Which rows are repeated measurements as opposed to independent measurements. Which pieces are upstream of which others. There's so much domain knowledge baked into data, while we just expect an algorithm to learn from a simple table of floats.

The human state of the art solution seems to be going on slack and asking questions about the data provenance, which will decidedly not work for an automated approach.

A primary reason I can do better a better job than a generic algorithm is because you told me where the data came from (or I designed the schema and ETL myself), while the algo can't make any useful assumptions because all that info is hidden.

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#42
post #33

Has work been done to formally prove general AI can't arise from deep learning? I can't help but feel its an assumption being made by those that prefer classical research.

First you need to find a formal definition for “general AI”.

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#43

I've been waiting for the Symbolic/NN pendulum to starting swinging back the other way and start settling in the center. NN/DL is great for the interface between the outer world and the inner world of the mind (pattern recognition and re-construction), and symbolic AI more straightforwardly represents more "language of the mind" tasks, and easily handles issues like explanation and other meta-behaviors that with DL i…

SAT solvers are really fast now. Some sort of "neural SAT problem definition" followed by solving it seems to be an interesting direction, but I'm relatively naive on it all. Not sure how training would work since there's no backprop through Boolean logic.

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#45
post #33

Has work been done to formally prove general AI can't arise from deep learning? I can't help but feel its an assumption being made by those that prefer classical research.

First you need to find a formal definition for “general AI”.

Which get you into defining consciousness too.

Sticky wicket.

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#46
post #43

I've been waiting for the Symbolic/NN pendulum to starting swinging back the other way and start settling in the center. NN/DL is great for the interface between the outer world and the inner world of the mind (pattern recognition and re-construction), and symbolic AI more straightforwardly represents more "language of the mind" tasks, and easily handles issues like explanation and other meta-behaviors that with DL i…

SAT solvers are really fast now. Some sort of "neural SAT problem definition" followed by solving it seems to be an interesting direction, but I'm relatively naive on it all. Not sure how training would work since there's no backprop through Boolean logic.

Differentiable SAT solvers is a thing.

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#47

I'm coming to suspect that even our data isn't enough for useful AI. Imagine you had a truly general sci-fi AI at your office. It still couldn't just look at your database and answer a simple question like "What was the difference in client churn rates between mobile and desktop last month?" or "What was the effect of experiment 1234 on per-client revenue?" Hell, a human couldn't do it. As far as the human or AI woul…

I mean, yeah, you can't do causal inference without a causal model. Uh, what's new about that?

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#48

I'm coming to suspect that even our data isn't enough for useful AI. Imagine you had a truly general sci-fi AI at your office. It still couldn't just look at your database and answer a simple question like "What was the difference in client churn rates between mobile and desktop last month?" or "What was the effect of experiment 1234 on per-client revenue?" Hell, a human couldn't do it. As far as the human or AI woul…

This is a fantastic point that may not be relevant now, but may be extraordinarily relevant in the future.

I’m not aware of any work or even sci-fi that addresses AGI with regards to this question, and would be curious if there’s stuff out there?

Re: We can’t trust AI systems built on deep learning alone

#49

I'm coming to suspect that even our data isn't enough for useful AI. Imagine you had a truly general sci-fi AI at your office. It still couldn't just look at your database and answer a simple question like "What was the difference in client churn rates between mobile and desktop last month?" or "What was the effect of experiment 1234 on per-client revenue?" Hell, a human couldn't do it. As far as the human or AI woul…

If you had 'truly general sci-fi AI', I would think it would know what questions to ask you like a normal human would.

Or if we're talking serious AGI level, just feed it your codebase/email/slack history and have it learn all of that hidden info.

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