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Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

getaround.com

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Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#51
post #5

An interesting idea, the pricing (on both buy and sell side) should be much more obvious, I couldn't find anything besides the "as much as $350 for renting your car out for 15 hours". Are the prices based on the quality of car or does everyone get the same amount? (My 25 year old beater CRX vs your new Tesla?) I also wonder how many people would really be willing to rent their own car out. I would expect the people t…

It's in their FAQ: http://support.getaround.com/kb/car-owners/choose-how-much-t...

Based on the screenshot in the tour, setting your price to $12/hour nets you $9.60/hour, so they charge a 20% commission. Not bad considering all the insurance and so on is taken care of.

To prevent rental abuse, it would be interesting if their car kit had an accelerometer, monitored RPM, etc. to detect when things are outside of the norm. There are some other potential issues I see with this. Their car kit appears to plug into the cigarette lighter -- what happens if someone breaks in and steals it? Also, those with integrated Bluetooth handsfree should not use their vehicle's address book functionality or they expose that to any renters. What if someone returns your vehicle but parks it in a spot that, the next morning, becomes a "no stopping during rush hour" zone?

It'd be interesting if this becomes a viable way to make money in high density areas. Lease a handful of half-decent cars for a few years and leave them full-time as rental vehicles. If it's realistic to make $350/month for only 15 hours a week, that could be profitable. Presumably you would only need to get parking/storage-level insurance as driving insurance is provided by GetAround.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#52
post #47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Malloy adds that Zipcar's proprietary security systems are installed throughout its fleet to prevent car theft." http://directmag.com/mag/marketing_zipcar_goes_extra/

Googling around suggests that this involves the zipcard - if you don't use it to enter you can't start the car. There's no real reason that other companies can't do something similar. Also (and perhaps I shouldn't say this) I often see additional zipcards in the trunks of zipcars - by the spare tire - presumably for use by service personnel.

I think you're right that outright theft of the car is unlikely. But the advantage that Zipcar has over this p2p system is Zipcar personnel can keep a log of everything related to a vehicle - the condition of all of its parts and a full inventory of its accessories. This also allows Zipcar to make final decisions about who has caused damage or theft. In a p2p system, there is no central authority to adjudicate these issues - which requires relying on the word of either the owner or the renter to decide who is responsible.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#53
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zipcar seems to be fairly successful despite leaving the key in the car.

Interesting as I did not know the key was left in the vehicle. Does the strong branding of the car help them out because it reduces the potential resale value? I perceive most stolen cars are "parted out", so this shouldn't matter much though.

More likely is that there is no other way.

Modern car security usually involves a coded key. The key is coded to an immobiliser computer, which is then coded to the main engine computer. Sometimes the key works by RFID. Without the correct combination of key/immobiliser/engine computer the car will never start. You can't just replace the key - it has to be ordered via the dealer and programmed to match the car - same goes for all the other computers. You can't just take out an engine computer from car A and put it into car B and expect it to work. Each is encrypted to only talk to it's matching set of key/receiver/immobiliser computer/engine computer - subsitute one out and nothing will work. The actual ignition lock is immaterial - and a lot of newer cars have done away with it altogether and just have a slot for the key and a start button instead.

So for someone like Zipcar etc, it wouldn't be economically feasible to try and develop new hardware for the car that adapted/circumvented the proprietary immobiliser security systems in modern cars. Much cheaper and easier to leave the original key in a locked box.

As for parting out- you're probably correct. Without an original set of keys, you're not going to get the car going again, because the only way to get a key is to apply to the factory for one. And they keep a list of stolen vehicles in the same way cellphone companies know which handsets have been stolen.

The flipside of all this - if you're purchasing a used car and only one key is available start asking questions why. If you go to the dealer to purchase a replacement key you might find out that the car has been blacklisted and no more keys are available. Cars that have been carjacked or stolen by stealing the owners bag with keys in it generally don't have the spare keys available.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting as I did not know the key was left in the vehicle. Does the strong branding of the car help them out because it reduces the potential resale value? I perceive most stolen cars are "parted out", so this shouldn't matter much though.

I think a lot of the commenters here are overestimating the probability of car theft. "The National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) reports that 2009 marked the nation's sixth consecutive year of declining vehicle thefts in the United States. U.S. motor vehicle thefts declined 17.1 percent from 2008 to 2009—the largest annual decline in decades." http://www.rmiia.org/auto/auto_theft/statistics.asp Also "premium" cars f…

Most of this decline will be related to better in-vehicle security systems rather than a more obedient public.

The interesting stats are the thefts of older vehicles - which are way higher than new vehicles because of the crude anti-theft measures in 80's and 90's cars.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#55
post #49

Eric Sink suggested pretty much this exact idea some years ago, but said he didn't think it would work because of the risk of people treating cars badly. http://www.ericsink.com/Choose_Your_Competition.html I tend to agree; I'd not be at all keen to loan my car to some random stranger. I'm more attached to it than the average person, but there just seem to be too many things that could go wrong; what if they smoke in…

The thing is with rental cars - it's not the major damage, but all the minor damage - the stuff that isn't worth claiming on for insurance. The scuffs were luggage is dragged in and out. The full ashtray, mysterious stains on seats. The service life of a car can be halved easily by an uncaring driver - redline shifts on a cold engine, vigorous attack of speed bumps, grinding wheels on kerbs - the list is endless. Eve…

"you could get to the point where people purchase a car specifically for the intent of hiring it out for profit, in the same way that people do with yachts, holiday apartments and other high-value durables."

But, if it's profitable for me to buy a car for the purpose of renting it out, why shouldn't the startup cut me out and directly purchase cars to profitably rent out? And get economies of scale while they're at it? Maybe it's a way to bootstrap, but it seems like an unstable strategy, and that those purchasing cars to rent out are likely to find themselves on the receiving end of, ah, an uneconomical transaction.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#56
post #7

I wonder how easy it would be for someone to sign up with fake id, pass the screening process and then steal a really nice car. Or, worse, remove some of its engine parts and replace them with cheaper ones. Do I need to tag each part in the car and strip it down each time it's returned to make sure no one has swapped anything out? (Some internal parts are expensive enough that it might be worth someone's time to rent…

These are all legitimate issues you bring up, but they're all issues that normal car rental companies face too. How do they handle it?

The same issues are faced with rental of any high-value item, whether it be a house, boat or car. The answer is both scale (many items) and in-built pricing that expects, say, 1 in 100 people to steal/break something. You've got to price in the expectation of replacing certain items.

For the individual owner without fleet economics to back them up, however, one individual event (ie, theft, major damage) can be enough to put them out of the pool.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#57
Ok, I'm trying very hard not to be that industry guy that scoffs at the new entrant to the space with a new business model, but I have serious concerns as to the viability of this model.

My background: I've run a car rental company for nearly 7 years now, so I know a thing or two about the logistics. Granted, my business deals with luxury/exotic cars, so some of the issues we face are quite different, but nonethless the core issues remain.

Here are my concerns:

* Rental cars get treated like crap, whether it's a Buick or a Bentley. "Mystery damage" appears in a high percentage of rentals. The customer will, 9 times out of 10, say "Oh, that was there when I picked the car up." We solve that problem by having a trained staff member take photographs of the car before and after and have the customer sign a very detailed check-in and check-out report with every inch of the car covered. In the event of a dispute, we are documented up the wazoo. If these transactions are happening person-to-person, how is that documentation being done? It takes at least a few weeks of solid training to get our employees accustomed to having "the eye" for damage to our cars. I doubt P2P renters are going to train themselves. This, then, opens up every rental experience to a massive potential for liability and dispute, and in the cases where the documentation isn't up to spec, both parties will be left with a very bad taste in their mouths (and potential lawsuits).

* Insurance. They claim to offer insurance, and I'm sure they've managed to find a carrier to cover them, but insurance in the car rental world is dicey at best. Often carriers will provide coverage, but if you've got too many claims (and a business like this is ripe for claims -- see above) then you'll get dropped like a hot potato. And if you get dropped, there aren't many other options. And the few options that exist cost 2x - 10x the price. I've seen this again and again - it's very easy to start and run a car rental company for the first year. Then you have an accident and it comes time for renewal and the story -- and numbers -- change dramatically.

* In general, and this is my weakest argument, lots of people try to enter the car rental business because they think of cars as commodities that can be treated like any other piece of equipment. The problem is that cars are massive rolling accident and lawsuit machines. If you're renting a dress to someone (Rent The Runway) or your couch (AirBNB) or a watch or a tux or etc. etc. etc. that's one thing. But there isn't a chance that dress is going to cause a death. Or a massive accident. And if the dress gets ripped, it's a $100/$1000 problem, not a $20,000 or $50,000 problem (or in the event of an accident w/ injuries, a $20M problem).

Anyway, I want to embrace new and innovative models, but this smells of disaster to me.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#58
post #55
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is with rental cars - it's not the major damage, but all the minor damage - the stuff that isn't worth claiming on for insurance. The scuffs were luggage is dragged in and out. The full ashtray, mysterious stains on seats. The service life of a car can be halved easily by an uncaring driver - redline shifts on a cold engine, vigorous attack of speed bumps, grinding wheels on kerbs - the list is endless. Eve…

"you could get to the point where people purchase a car specifically for the intent of hiring it out for profit, in the same way that people do with yachts, holiday apartments and other high-value durables." But, if it's profitable for me to buy a car for the purpose of renting it out, why shouldn't the startup cut me out and directly purchase cars to profitably rent out? And get economies of scale while they're at i…

Because the capital costs of purchasing and owning cars is huge. No startup is going to be able to compete with that. They literally need to use other peoples money. You could ask why AirBnB doesn't purchase apartments in New York and San Francisco.

A distributed model where other people contribute their money, and the business makes money as an agency is well established in other fields. I know of many holiday properties where each individual apartment is privately owned, but the building is managed by a single entity. The owners wear the depreciation costs and interest charges (if using borrowed money) but get to keep the majority of the revenue from rentals, and any capital appreciation from the property, or wear any losses from a drop in value.

In the same way, a startup can allow others to contribute the capital value, wear any depreciation, financing and insurance, and just take an agency fee. This is really not much different to other rental car companies who presumably lease all of the rental vehicles either off some central owner of the vehicles, or directly from the manufacturer. Or, perhaps they just have a large, revolving credit line which they use to purchase the vehicles. They certainly aren't going to own them, so it really comes down to a definition of title.

I think the blurring here is that most people see car ownership as a strictly private-use phenomonen, whereas in property or boats, mixed private/investment or pure investment is much more common.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#59
Needs real people on the front page.

Peer-to-peer is "personable". Perhaps have some people e.g., Bob & Alice, and how it works for them. At the moment it is a bit cold and un-personable, and at worst makes possible users wary of the service.

See http://www.airbnb.com, for example: an embedded video with an attractive person. Goes a long way to assuring/soothing the prospective user.

Re: Getaround: Peer-to-peer car sharing and car rental startup

#60
post #57

Ok, I'm trying very hard not to be that industry guy that scoffs at the new entrant to the space with a new business model, but I have serious concerns as to the viability of this model. My background: I've run a car rental company for nearly 7 years now, so I know a thing or two about the logistics. Granted, my business deals with luxury/exotic cars, so some of the issues we face are quite different, but nonethless…

I'm not involved in the rental industry, but have always been interested in it (hence multiple posts), simply because I've often wondered out loud how they make money, and I've seen many different business models. Obviously people do, so there is a business model there, and it isn't freely communicated to the public.

While some firms operate like yours, with detailed checkin/checkout process, others seem to care less as long as you turn up in something with the right plates on, that seems to be the right make and color. 10 minutes at one of the large rental locations in LA will show this. My thoughts are that these companies just work on volume, purchase the cars cheap, turn them over regularly and just work on pure numbers.

Whether this can translate to a mixed-lot private rental remains to be seen. It is just too easy for a one-time renter to do a lot of damage to a vehicle and disappear, taking their facebook account with them. The reputation model works well in many cases (see ebay with high reputation buyers/sellers) but breaks down at the starting point. I guess it can be covered by a higher premium for first time renters but then that is going to dissuade new people from trying out the service. Perhaps the company can offer cash bonuses to people willing to rent to first-time customers or something.

As for your last argument - I think - despite your valid claims, that a bog-standard rental car can be treated as a commodity, despite the mechanical complexity and insurance / liability issues. It just takes the right mix of legal protection and insurance underwriting. How you get that is the key to the puzzle, and the person that gets it right will win this battle, if it can be won.

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