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Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

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Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#61

Post by hatfortguy »

pmiller2 wrote: post #57
derekp7 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about unions that are more like a trade guild, which sets standards for its members which make dealing with a union member more of a known quantity than hiring a random person off the street? I'm thinking of things like a union electrician or plumber. This could serve to minimize the need for interview gimmicks, since the union itself would enforce standards through its own certification process.

Seems like that just shifts the song and dance from the interview process to the certification process.

Yep. And that's exactly where it should be. It's insane that we have to prove the same things at every interview when certification already proves these things.

If all you want is a plumber with a certain skill set, then hire a union plumber with certification.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#62

Post by finnthehuman »

theamk wrote: post #56
unreal37 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions have their own goals that are more than just "the interests of Kickstarter employees". So in fact, there will be times when issues are important to Kickstarter employees but are not important to their union. Or important to the union but not very many employees. And then what?

I thought the whole point of unions was to represent interests of employees? If the Kickstarter employees' issues are not important to their union, why would they unionize?

>Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people":

>First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

>Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

>The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#63

Post by UncleMeat »

baron816 wrote: post #17
SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #14

The lack of unions in the industry is making me leave. It’s going to leave out many of its current employees to dry: I want something better than the word of an entrepreneur.

If a tech company I worked for unionized, I would leave. I’m not in a single company town where everyone has worked at the same place their entire lives. Tech companies face fierce competition for talent, and it has worked out quite nicely for the employees. I wouldn’t want some outside organization coming in and forcing me to pay dues, demanding changes to the structure of the company, devaluing my equity, and makin…

Its not an outside organization. It is an organization that you democratically control.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#64

Post by iliketocomplain »

barry-cotter wrote: post #12
thinkingkong wrote: post #4

Are there any fields similar to software development where there are unions? And if so how is that actually working?

It works great for the Screen Actor’s Guild and the rest of the film industry. They set minimum wages and use their market power to radically restrict entry so that there’s less competition from outsiders, by not working with firms that employ non-members and expelling members that do. Any Software Professionals Guild could do the same, reduce the supply of competitors and punish people who employed any entry level w…

"works great" ... "Completely fucks everyone who is not a member" How on Earth can you call this a good thing? It's horrible, and it's evil. "join or die" basically

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#65

Post by iliketocomplain »

songerik wrote: post #30
thinkingkong wrote: post #4

Are there any fields similar to software development where there are unions? And if so how is that actually working?

The film industry is the best example of why the software industry should be unionized. A critical purpose of film industry unions is taking a responsibility for their talent. The software industry hiring practices need this very bad. With the film industry, it is hard to get into the unions. It takes a lot of work and networking, and proving one’s self worthy, but considering the hiring hell that the software indust…

How is it a blessing to me that companies are not allowed to hire me? Pls elaborate.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#66

Post by rumanator »

UncleMeat wrote: post #63
baron816 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a tech company I worked for unionized, I would leave. I’m not in a single company town where everyone has worked at the same place their entire lives. Tech companies face fierce competition for talent, and it has worked out quite nicely for the employees. I wouldn’t want some outside organization coming in and forcing me to pay dues, demanding changes to the structure of the company, devaluing my equity, and makin…

Its not an outside organization. It is an organization that you democratically control.

> is an organization that you democratically control.

There is no such thing. You do have the right to cast a vote from time to time, but that's the full extent of your influence over the organization. Between elections you are there to take orders and experience the outcome of events decided by a random union type without your say or input. That's not control. That's just another master telling you what to do.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#67

Post by tanderson92 »

tptacek wrote: post #26
cwyers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sociology.fas.harvard.edu/people/nathan-robinson “He is also the author of _The Man Who Accidentally Wore His Cravat to a Gymnasium_, a children's book about fashion and conformity.“ And he speaks with a British accent but grew up in the US.

Amusingly, in his takedown of Elizabeth Warren, he equates time spent at Harvard to time spent working for Chevron. Just, weird dude.

He criticizes her for educating the future corporate lawyers of America. In her very first Youtube video as chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel (COP) she proudly discussed her long career teaching ``money courses'' for Harvard Law.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#68

Post by unreal37 »

danShumway wrote: post #44
unreal37 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't thought of it until I read your comment, but when I worked for the government, the people who were MOST familiar with the contract, the rules, the exact things that I could ask them to do and the things they were allowed to refuse... were the worst teammates. There was a lot of really good people at the government. And they never talked about their contract. But then the two worst employees on the team were…

> the people who were MOST familiar with the contract, the rules, the exact things that I could ask them to do and the things they were allowed to refuse... were the worst teammates. Apply this comment to workers and employers and it sound reasonable. Rephrase this comment to apply to civilians and police officers and it sounds horrible, even though in both cases we can argue that the goal is to not have adversarial,…

There are two sides to every story perhaps. Not saying people don't need to know "their rights" and not saying it's ok to take advantage of people.

But I'm not talking about "unpaid overtime" or "working in unsafe conditions" here. I'm talking about wanting to do something to help the end user, and having people actively refuse to help because it's not in their job description.

And that stems from them knowing that they cannot ever be required to do anything that is not covered by their job description.

"So you want 10 minutes of my help to figure out why this program crashes and to make it better for the end user? Sorry, I need that request to come in writing from my boss."

People who help each other if they can is a much better environment than people who only help each other if they are absolutely required to do so.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#69

Post by SomeOtherThrow »

baron816 wrote: post #17
SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #14

The lack of unions in the industry is making me leave. It’s going to leave out many of its current employees to dry: I want something better than the word of an entrepreneur.

If a tech company I worked for unionized, I would leave. I’m not in a single company town where everyone has worked at the same place their entire lives. Tech companies face fierce competition for talent, and it has worked out quite nicely for the employees. I wouldn’t want some outside organization coming in and forcing me to pay dues, demanding changes to the structure of the company, devaluing my equity, and makin…

Hey, that’s a union job I can take instead, no worries.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#70

Post by SomeOtherThrow »

rumanator wrote: post #66
UncleMeat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not an outside organization. It is an organization that you democratically control.

> is an organization that you democratically control. There is no such thing. You do have the right to cast a vote from time to time, but that's the full extent of your influence over the organization. Between elections you are there to take orders and experience the outcome of events decided by a random union type without your say or input. That's not control. That's just another master telling you what to do.

Dictatorships are the default model of corporate America. What you’re describing is still a massive step up from following one idiot and still having no say.
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