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Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

currentaffairs.org

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Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#31

Post by paulcole »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #19
wolco wrote: post #2

Pro or con of the union idea, I hope get they nailed for firing those two organizers. Firing someone and claiming poor performance makes me not want to support them anymore. I won't give them a cent.

I’ve not met either the Kickstarter management nor the people that were fired, but isn’t it possible that these folks knew they were poor performers and were on borrowed time with the company? They may have wanted to start a union that could bargain on their behalf with a lot more power. I’m not saying that unions created in good faith are bad, but there are union leaders that give off a vibe of self-enrichment. Kind…

Doesn’t sound like you’ve reserved judgement. Your comment makes it pretty clear where you stand.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#32

Post by brajkovic »

cwyers wrote: post #22
tanderson92 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you possibly elaborate on why you feel Nathan Robinson is an extremely weird dude? I only know about him from his writing in Current Affairs (and famously his take-downs).

https://sociology.fas.harvard.edu/people/nathan-robinson “He is also the author of _The Man Who Accidentally Wore His Cravat to a Gymnasium_, a children's book about fashion and conformity.“ And he speaks with a British accent but grew up in the US.

I went to college with him and he was just as odd back then.

He "ran" an _attack ad_ for a student judiciary campaign calling a friend of mine a rapscallion.

Odd dude, but to my great surprise, he appears to be doing interesting work. Wish him nothing but the best.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#33

Post by [deleted] »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #19
wolco wrote: post #2

Pro or con of the union idea, I hope get they nailed for firing those two organizers. Firing someone and claiming poor performance makes me not want to support them anymore. I won't give them a cent.

I’ve not met either the Kickstarter management nor the people that were fired, but isn’t it possible that these folks knew they were poor performers and were on borrowed time with the company? They may have wanted to start a union that could bargain on their behalf with a lot more power. I’m not saying that unions created in good faith are bad, but there are union leaders that give off a vibe of self-enrichment. Kind…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#34

Post by danShumway »

Regardless of whether anyone is pro or anti union, it's been obvious for a while now that Kickstarter isn't arguing in good faith about this. They are going to war with their own employees. There's just no justification for that, even if you think unions are bad.

Kickstarter keeps digging themselves deeper and deeper into this hole, claiming that they're doing it because unions will alter the relationship they have with employees.

Even if that's true -- you know what really alters the relationship you have with employees? Firing them whenever they try to exercise their rights. It's pretty hard to believe an employer has your back when they are actively threatening you and telling you they won't acknowledge any of the decisions you make.

Kickstarter's owners and managers have proven that they're able to build a hostile work environment just fine on their own, without anybody else's help. I don't see any way for them to save face at this point beyond just sitting down and saying, "we were wrong, we treated you like children, and you have the right to decide how you want to negotiate with us."

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#35

Post by pmikesell »

I worry that tech workers may be under-informed about what a union may mean. A union can be in many ways similar to a corporation with its own power structure and demands.

Just 4 examples from my time in a union shop:

  1) Pay raise and promotion via seniority only

  2) Being warned by the shop steward that I was "working too fast"

  3) Heavy coercion to contribute to specific political candidates

  4) Going on strike for reasons I didn't agree with
Maybe a tech union would turn out better somehow. I for one would not want to go back to that situation.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#36

Post by [deleted] »

barry-cotter wrote: post #12
thinkingkong wrote: post #4

Are there any fields similar to software development where there are unions? And if so how is that actually working?

It works great for the Screen Actor’s Guild and the rest of the film industry. They set minimum wages and use their market power to radically restrict entry so that there’s less competition from outsiders, by not working with firms that employ non-members and expelling members that do. Any Software Professionals Guild could do the same, reduce the supply of competitors and punish people who employed any entry level w…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#37

Post by parsimo2010 »

paulcole wrote: post #31
parsimo2010 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve not met either the Kickstarter management nor the people that were fired, but isn’t it possible that these folks knew they were poor performers and were on borrowed time with the company? They may have wanted to start a union that could bargain on their behalf with a lot more power. I’m not saying that unions created in good faith are bad, but there are union leaders that give off a vibe of self-enrichment. Kind…

Doesn’t sound like you’ve reserved judgement. Your comment makes it pretty clear where you stand.

I have reserved judgement. I'm not crucifying Kickstarter for firing some people, and I'm also not attacking the people that were fired. I'm leaving room on both sides due to the fact that these people were fired and I've only heard one side. I'm just mentioning that it would be completely reasonable for Kickstarter to have fired three people that were low performers and they also happened to be involved in the union effort. Two of the three were on performance improvement plans and one was told that they should have been on a plan. I did mention that it wouldn't be unusual if the fired people were making excuses, but I didn't say that they definitely were just making excuses.

The people that haven't reserved judgement are the ones saying that "I hope Kickstarter really gets it."

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#38

Post by solidasparagus »

CPLX wrote: post #18
baron816 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a tech company I worked for unionized, I would leave. I’m not in a single company town where everyone has worked at the same place their entire lives. Tech companies face fierce competition for talent, and it has worked out quite nicely for the employees. I wouldn’t want some outside organization coming in and forcing me to pay dues, demanding changes to the structure of the company, devaluing my equity, and makin…

You’re aware that the major professional sports in the US are unionized right? Do you think the competition for talent for them is more or less fierce than it is for you?

The NFL is a perfect example of how unions can work out extremely poorly for the players because unions struggle to be truly representative of the people in that industry (and the people who are not yet in the industry but will be locked into a union deal they weren't a part of negotiating). Some subset of the players have the most influence in the CBA negotiations (due to longevity + connections, fame, etc), they push for the things they care about, and then the final outcome leaves a very large set of current and future players in a shitty situation.

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#39

Post by unreal37 »

pmikesell wrote: post #35

I worry that tech workers may be under-informed about what a union may mean. A union can be in many ways similar to a corporation with its own power structure and demands. Just 4 examples from my time in a union shop: 1) Pay raise and promotion via seniority only 2) Being warned by the shop steward that I was "working too fast" 3) Heavy coercion to contribute to specific political candidates 4) Going on strike for re…

Unions have their own goals that are more than just "the interests of Kickstarter employees". So in fact, there will be times when issues are important to Kickstarter employees but are not important to their union. Or important to the union but not very many employees. And then what?

Re: Kickstarter doubles down on its anti-union stance

#40

Post by parsimo2010 »

eropple wrote: post #25
baron816 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the worst example you could’ve used. Pro sports leagues are monopolies with a large percentage of potential players/workers being left out of the market.

Only MLB is a monopoly.

Can you expand on that? It seems like the NFL and NBA are also monopolies. I can't think of any organization, even worldwide, that could compete in their sports. There is arena football, but that is a laughable alternative to the NFL. The top foreign pros play in the NBA, they do not stay in their home leagues. It seems a lot like there is no choice of where to play for top pros in these sports, which makes them a monopoly.

An alternative that doesn't seem quite like a monopoly is the UFC with mixed martial arts. Bellator MMA is a viable (but less prestigious) alternative for someone that doesn't want to work with the UFC.

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