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After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

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Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#11

Post by kube-system »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #9
kube-system wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, this is not clickbait. Many define 'clickbait' as a lead that is characteristically deceptive, misleading, or exaggerated. I'd argue this is simply a teaser, as the article certainly delivers on its promise of a 'secret'. If anything, 'secret' is understated.

Respectfully, I disagree. To my mind, a "clickbait" title includes purposely omitting information for the purposes of getting you to click. If this were a newspaper headline, it would've been "Man discovers mummified remains in deceased mother's freezer", because the purpose of the headline is to convey as much information as possible, succinctly. But the "clickbait" article intentionally omits what is in the freezer…

It's certainly up for debate, as there are varying definitions.

Although, I don't think it's fair to put things like "Man photographs Lock Ness monster, and you'll never guess what happens next!" BS in the same category as my nightly news saying "After the break, new CDC warnings you should know before you vape"

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#12

Post by bardan »

kube-system wrote: post #11
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, I disagree. To my mind, a "clickbait" title includes purposely omitting information for the purposes of getting you to click. If this were a newspaper headline, it would've been "Man discovers mummified remains in deceased mother's freezer", because the purpose of the headline is to convey as much information as possible, succinctly. But the "clickbait" article intentionally omits what is in the freezer…

It's certainly up for debate, as there are varying definitions. Although, I don't think it's fair to put things like "Man photographs Lock Ness monster, and you'll never guess what happens next!" BS in the same category as my nightly news saying "After the break, new CDC warnings you should know before you vape"

Maybe we could say there are varying degrees of clickbait, but any headline that calls attention to the fact it is omitting important information has to be considered clickbait.

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#13

Post by ramphastidae »

kube-system wrote: post #7
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank-you. HN's original title policy shouldn't apply when the title is so flagrantly clickbait.

Arguably, this is not clickbait. Many define 'clickbait' as a lead that is characteristically deceptive, misleading, or exaggerated. I'd argue this is simply a teaser, as the article certainly delivers on its promise of a 'secret'. If anything, 'secret' is understated.

If this doesn't read as clear, absolute, 100%, not-at-all-up-for-debate clickbait as explained by AdmiralAsshat then the media has done a great job of manipulating your expectations.

The title intentionally replaces the primary subject of the article (baby found in freezer) with withholding and vague language ("her secret") in order to force readers to click through to learn what the primary subject is. They are baiting you into clicking.

This is clickbait.

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#14

Post by lemmsjid »

ramphastidae wrote: post #13
kube-system wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, this is not clickbait. Many define 'clickbait' as a lead that is characteristically deceptive, misleading, or exaggerated. I'd argue this is simply a teaser, as the article certainly delivers on its promise of a 'secret'. If anything, 'secret' is understated.

If this doesn't read as clear, absolute, 100%, not-at-all-up-for-debate clickbait as explained by AdmiralAsshat then the media has done a great job of manipulating your expectations. The title intentionally replaces the primary subject of the article (baby found in freezer) with withholding and vague language ("her secret") in order to force readers to click through to learn what the primary subject is. They are bait…

You’re missing the bait part of clickbait. Baiting a fish is tricking them into thinking they’ll get a meal, when they won’t. Clickbait is for things like “You won’t believe the shocking thing Harrison Ford did this morning!!” —and it turns out he buttered his toast. All too common, when media companies actually do not have a story, or the funds to go deep on a story, so instead mislead the reader into thinking a story is there when it isn’t. In other words, bait.

This article delivers what it promises, which is unveiling the mystery and the context around it in a well written and researched fashion.

I would be very sad if all headlines had to be so reductionistically explicit that there was no room for narrative. For example in this case the presence of the box was hanging over the family for years. Leaving that mystery to the reader does make a tantalizing headline, but also allows for increased identification with the family itself. That will not be true for all readers, but let’s please separate clickbait from anticipation and suspense.

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#15

Post by ramphastidae »

lemmsjid wrote: post #14
ramphastidae wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this doesn't read as clear, absolute, 100%, not-at-all-up-for-debate clickbait as explained by AdmiralAsshat then the media has done a great job of manipulating your expectations. The title intentionally replaces the primary subject of the article (baby found in freezer) with withholding and vague language ("her secret") in order to force readers to click through to learn what the primary subject is. They are bait…

You’re missing the bait part of clickbait. Baiting a fish is tricking them into thinking they’ll get a meal, when they won’t. Clickbait is for things like “You won’t believe the shocking thing Harrison Ford did this morning!!” —and it turns out he buttered his toast. All too common, when media companies actually do not have a story, or the funds to go deep on a story, so instead mislead the reader into thinking a sto…

> You’re missing the bait part of clickbait.

It's not missing at all. The bait is the phrase "her secret in the freezer".

The article may be high quality but the title is clickbait, plain and simple. Do you believe the author chose that title themselves? Or was it the editors who have marketing-set quotas to reach?

Why do you think the top voted comment in this thread is the explanation of what "her secret in the freezer" is? Why do you think the top replying comment to that is the primary HN mod acknowledging it is clickbait?

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#16

Post by mpiedrav »

adamnemecek wrote: post #10
dang wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'd be happy to change the title to make it less baity, but couldn't think of a dignified way to do so. The article is much more interesting than just that detail, although it goes to tragic places.

Is this post really HN material?

It doesn't seem like it. But, every now and then, reality calls about the extremes of human nature (those very humans we serve through tech and science) are necessary :/

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#17

Post by paco3346 »

batmanthehorse wrote: post #4
dang wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'd be happy to change the title to make it less baity, but couldn't think of a dignified way to do so. The article is much more interesting than just that detail, although it goes to tragic places.

I’m glad it wasn’t in the title. It was a good read and a real surprise when I got to that part.

I agree. Despite it seeming very clickbaity it was actually a very interesting read.

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#19

Post by jakobegger »

ramphastidae wrote: post #13
kube-system wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, this is not clickbait. Many define 'clickbait' as a lead that is characteristically deceptive, misleading, or exaggerated. I'd argue this is simply a teaser, as the article certainly delivers on its promise of a 'secret'. If anything, 'secret' is understated.

If this doesn't read as clear, absolute, 100%, not-at-all-up-for-debate clickbait as explained by AdmiralAsshat then the media has done a great job of manipulating your expectations. The title intentionally replaces the primary subject of the article (baby found in freezer) with withholding and vague language ("her secret") in order to force readers to click through to learn what the primary subject is. They are bait…

The author really tried hard to build up the suspense before the reveal, so it would be very odd if they gave it away in the title. I even think they gave away too much, since my first thought was "baby" when I read "in the freezer".

I think this kind of story is one of the rare cases where I would have preferred a less revealing title.

Some people enjoy reading stories without knowing the end beforehand.

Re: After his mother died, he found her secret in the freezer

#20

Post by DoreenMichele »

It's really about much more than just the dead baby. For me, the headline wasn't click bait. The obvious inference was "dead baby."

It's actually a really interesting Case Study in Serial Hidden Pregnancies.

There's a lot of data out there on hidden pregnancies. I've read a number of such stories.

My general impression is that they are typically a one time event for someone really young who comes from a conservative environment, such as a Catholic family. The event seems to frequently spur personal changes that prevent future incidents.

They make a break with the conservative social circle they come from; or they get educated about birth control; and/or they feel burned, stop drinking, stop sleeping around and become more conservative and preachy than anyone else.

What's very unusual here is she continued to successfully hide pregnancies, even after having a fallout with her Catholic family. She didn't become a serial killer either. She gave up at least two children for adoption.

It's a strange case because she basically is a woman who had many lovers over the years. That's much more typically male behavior.

Men fairly often pick up women randomly and may have no idea how many children they fathered on one-night stands. Women usually can't manage to get away with that or, if they do, it's because they are infertile and incapable of becoming pregnant.

This is one of the elements of Mae West's life. She couldn't have children.

My sister had serious fertility problems. I had my first baby unexpectedly at age 22 and never managed to have a real career. My sister ended up with a real career and finally had her only child in her mid thirties after years of intervention.

She read extensively on related topics. She concluded that infertility was a root cause of serious careers for some women, herself included. She once said if things had been different, she could see having four kids. But they weren't.

So what's strange here is this woman wasn't privileged. She didn't have the money to support a large brood. She took a long time to distance herself from her conservative family. She wasn't infertile.

Yet she kept drinking and sleeping around. And she sometimes successfully hid the resulting pregnancies.

Following her death, relatives are still trying to piece together the full story. There remains at least one hidden pregnancy unaccounted for according to the records they've been able to find.

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