Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 402 posts

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#261

Post by selestify »

thanatropism wrote: post #210
BeetleB wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think we should put a high value on people that can handle their own problems. Try as I might, I have no idea what this has to do with feelings. Are you making an assumption that people who acknowledge or express their feelings are not handling problems? And of course, as others have pointed out, stoicism doesn't suggest not pondering over feelings.

There's a subtle line between repressing and ruminating. This may be colored by my experience of mental illness, but generally I've learned/grown more from pondering and sorting out feelings in the past rather than right now . It's easy to fall into a trap of "worshipping your pain" (or your hypomanic euphoria for that matter). OTOH I'm very appreciative of the dispassionate attitude encouraged by stoicism and medita…

Why not have feelings about your feelings?

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#262

Post by [deleted] »

thanatropism wrote: post #210
BeetleB wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think we should put a high value on people that can handle their own problems. Try as I might, I have no idea what this has to do with feelings. Are you making an assumption that people who acknowledge or express their feelings are not handling problems? And of course, as others have pointed out, stoicism doesn't suggest not pondering over feelings.

There's a subtle line between repressing and ruminating. This may be colored by my experience of mental illness, but generally I've learned/grown more from pondering and sorting out feelings in the past rather than right now . It's easy to fall into a trap of "worshipping your pain" (or your hypomanic euphoria for that matter). OTOH I'm very appreciative of the dispassionate attitude encouraged by stoicism and medita…

[deleted]

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#263

Post by selestify »

77pt77 wrote: post #193
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to use the term "open" instead of vulnerable, to avoid exactly the situation you're pointing out. And you can be open without being weak or vulnerable if you have self-confidence. Not faked confidence, but the genuine kind that comes from dealing with your shit instead of repressing it and putting on a mask of fake confidence, strength, stoicism, invulnerability, etc.

Again, that sounds like reverse causation...

What's causing what? I don't see cause and effect here, I see one adjective versus another.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#264

Post by tombh »

antepodius wrote: post #244
kungtotte wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing mental health issues and unstable personal relationships because you're unable to access and share your emotions is also a weakness that derives from the emotional suppression that men are taught is a desired masculine trait. It doesn't have to be like this. Vulnerability doesn't have to be a weakness, showing your emotions can be a masculine trait. We're not defined by, nor locked into, our traditional cu…

Vulnerability is a weakness. It's what the word means. I'm fine with people being more open with their emotions, fine, but I'm not a huge fan of the idea of socially mandating that weakness itself is strength, which is just a lie (would you wish that someone you loved were more vulnerable than they are?) It's different to having a norm for admission of weakness being a marker of strength due to the courage required i…

But it's not even what the words means.

Merriam-Webster: > capable of being physically or emotionally wounded

That can certainly be interpreted as a weakness. And it certainly is for things like vehicles, buildings, etc. But in the case of humans, vulnerability only means "weakness" when said human is perceived as an object, a means to an end, perhaps in a business transaction. The fact is that humans are in their most fundamental sense defined by the capacity to be physical and emotionally wounded. Therefore the term, being vulnerable, when used to describe a human attitude rather describes that person's expressed transparency to their innate humanness. As per this thread, more often men deny their vulnerability as if they cannot be emotionally wounded, which leads to a denial of their selves as a whole. Having the capacity to be emotionally wounded says absolutely nothing about somebody's emotional strengths and weaknesses, because we can all be equally wounded. Being vulnerable however potentially indicates a person's willingness to be transparent about their inner experience, namely their emotions, which can be anything from being overwhelmed to rage.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#265

Post by golemiprague »

cwbrandsma wrote: post #51
bmarquez wrote: post #3

I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…

I’m not sure this is only western society. Is there an indigenous culture that values male emotions without stigma? As I think about Asia and Africa, I’m drawing a blank on this. But I’d be happy to be shown wrong.

Western society is also "indigenous", mainly to Europe and no, if anything the only society blubbering about emotions is the western society because it doesn't have to deal with too much adversity. It will all end when some hardship will come its way and we all give a bit less importance to feminist agendas.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#266

Post by golemiprague »

Why do I have to listen to all this women bullshit. I talk about my emotions as much as I want and yes, most of those emotions are being pissed off with something or someone. Why do I suppose to have all those feminine emotions which I don't have? Why do I suppose to help myself in some way that obviously is not going to help me in any way. Men are not women, stop nag us, that will go much further than all those stupid advice by some lesbian feminists.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#267

Post by fapjacks »

DollarGuru wrote: post #249
kungtotte wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still thinking about this from a present day perspective. Yes, as it stands now what you say is true. Men derive personal power from stoicism and emotional suppression, our primary value is in how effective we are at shutting down non-essential aspects of ourselves and giving ourselves over entirely to whatever endeavor (usually work). We're also taught that we're entirely replaceable: if you can't put up the…

It would be great but it would only work if men as a group someone come to some better understanding. Men collectively are our own worst enemies because there is always another man willing to put aside those healthy attitudes and behaviours. Until healthy male emotional expression becomes attractive it will be rejected by men and women. Currently unless you have other very attractive features being emotionally vulner…

This is exactly why it never will be attractive, though. Because emotional detachment and opacity is how you kill and survive on the battlefield.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#268

Post by claudiawerner »

pubby wrote: post #48

Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other. On the other side, male sexuality selects based on looks more than anything. Feminism calls the latter shallow and toxic, but truthfully both should have that label. Neither is serving society or evolution well anymore. But what can we do? Sexual attraction i…

>Sexual attraction is an innate, unchanging aspect of what it means to be man and woman. It isn't going to be removed from our genes anytime soon.

This is obviously false. Just as our preferences for food have changed over time and according to culture (yet we all must eat), attitudes towards what is and isn't considered attractive have also changed. While it may be true for any given individual one cannot change the attractions they feel (or maybe it isn't true, I don't know), you ruined whatever point you were making when you mentioned genes, as if genetics dictate that (1) women (as in, all women, after all, you said it's "unchanging" and "in our genes") prefer men who don't express their emotions (2) the primary consideration for men is looks.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#269

Post by fapjacks »

fragmede wrote: post #172
bmarquez wrote: post #3

I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…

I've found that depends on which generation you're interacting with. Millenials seem far more able to say "I love you" to people that they love outside of their immediate biological family. It's not just the women, either. Men are able to express their feelings to other men in a non-romantic way. Absent is the toxic homophobia that has so colored previous generations. Hell, their recognition of non-binary genders, pr…

Maybe you would be surprised to learn that previous generations were also quite free with their love. They just expressed it differently and of course, having grown older, now understand that not everyone who says "I love you" is being emotionally transparent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you were around for any previous generations. Perhaps you will understand when you get older and watch the next generation talk about how everything we (every previous generation) have done and are doing is a broken, shitty mess, and how they have it all figured out. This is how every generation plays out.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#270

Post by fapjacks »

friendlybus wrote: post #251
jimkleiber wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little confused...what do you mean that the expression of sadness will ramp up?

It's an art thing. Hard to compress into a short comment. As the Trump capture on sadness fades there will be a natural reversal into an excess of the expression of sadness. We are seeing the start of it in films where there are women crying. Not that Trump controls that stuff, but rather he is tapping into a deeper principle. The cult like approach to certainty we see on the web will fade over time as well. Expressi…

Can you please decompress your short comment into a fuller one? I am interested in your thesis, but I still do not understand.
Post reply on HN