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Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

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Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#11

Post by soumyadeb »

HillRat wrote: post #10
amelius wrote: post #3

If every successful business is eventually copied by open source, can we really blame big companies for protective practices such as customer lock-in?

It’s licensed under SSPL, so the definition of “open source” may vary. (Specifically, they have an enterprise business model, so this is more properly a proprietary, source-available on-prem Segment competitor.)

Founder here. Yes, that is an appropriate statement. We want to be a business on the likes of Mattermost, Kafka, ElasticSearch and so on. We are committed to building an open-source community.

Honestly, we were not prepared for this post. We don't even have a license attorney. We just picked SSPL because that's what everyone seemed to suggest to prevent the likes of AWS cloning it. By no means we are an expert.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#12

Post by tyri_kai_psomi »

soumyadeb wrote: post #5

One of the authors here. This post was a pleasant surprise!! Happy to answer any questions. Or please feel to reach out to me at soumyadeb@rudderlabs.com.

You put a spotlight by saying "privacy and security focused alternative to segment"

Are there things you believe make segment not privacy and security focused? As a long time user of segment, I find their protocols feature and new data and privacy features world class for this.

Having also just left their Synapse conference, privacy and security was the #1 topic of discussion throughout the conference. I would say they are very much privacy and security focused.

Not trying to shill, but it comes off as maybe you are misrepresenting segment a little bit. "Open source segment alternative" would have probably been just fine.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#13

Post by soumyadeb »

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #12
soumyadeb wrote: post #5

One of the authors here. This post was a pleasant surprise!! Happy to answer any questions. Or please feel to reach out to me at soumyadeb@rudderlabs.com.

You put a spotlight by saying "privacy and security focused alternative to segment" Are there things you believe make segment not privacy and security focused? As a long time user of segment, I find their protocols feature and new data and privacy features world class for this. Having also just left their Synapse conference, privacy and security was the #1 topic of discussion throughout the conference. I would say th…

We started this before segment launched the privacy tool so yes that was a good validation of the pain point.

However, unlike segment we don't require you to send all your events to us. You are welcome to download and run the software yourself without ever talking to us.

We believe, having to send everything to a 3rd party (segment) goes against the fundamental goal of guaranteeing user privacy.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#14

Post by HillRat »

soumyadeb wrote: post #11
HillRat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s licensed under SSPL, so the definition of “open source” may vary. (Specifically, they have an enterprise business model, so this is more properly a proprietary, source-available on-prem Segment competitor.)

Founder here. Yes, that is an appropriate statement. We want to be a business on the likes of Mattermost, Kafka, ElasticSearch and so on. We are committed to building an open-source community. Honestly, we were not prepared for this post. We don't even have a license attorney. We just picked SSPL because that's what everyone seemed to suggest to prevent the likes of AWS cloning it. By no means we are an expert.

I think you’ve got a strong value proposition, especially in a GDPR/CCPA world. Have you figured out a channel and integration partner strategy yet? That’s probably the hill that you’re going to need to fight on.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#15

Post by soumyadeb »

HillRat wrote: post #14
soumyadeb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder here. Yes, that is an appropriate statement. We want to be a business on the likes of Mattermost, Kafka, ElasticSearch and so on. We are committed to building an open-source community. Honestly, we were not prepared for this post. We don't even have a license attorney. We just picked SSPL because that's what everyone seemed to suggest to prevent the likes of AWS cloning it. By no means we are an expert.

I think you’ve got a strong value proposition, especially in a GDPR/CCPA world. Have you figured out a channel and integration partner strategy yet? That’s probably the hill that you’re going to need to fight on.

No. I don't think we even understand the problem :) You mean, it would be hard to work with all the 200 or so 3rd party providers segment integrates with without having 1-1 relationships with them?

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#16

Post by colordrops »

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #12
soumyadeb wrote: post #5

One of the authors here. This post was a pleasant surprise!! Happy to answer any questions. Or please feel to reach out to me at soumyadeb@rudderlabs.com.

You put a spotlight by saying "privacy and security focused alternative to segment" Are there things you believe make segment not privacy and security focused? As a long time user of segment, I find their protocols feature and new data and privacy features world class for this. Having also just left their Synapse conference, privacy and security was the #1 topic of discussion throughout the conference. I would say th…

The author responded to you, but I think this deserves emphasis. True privacy is not about additional features or promises made by a cloud provider. It's not private unless you handle the data yourself, period point blank. This should be obvious.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#17

Post by tankster »

Segment has done an awesome job of building a great product but it is impossible to be provably secure and private given that they host all the data. Rudder can avoid situations such as the Segment Security incident that happened recently. https://segment.com/security/bulletins/incident090519/

Very excited about this project!

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#18

Post by techdragon »

soumyadeb wrote: post #11
HillRat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s licensed under SSPL, so the definition of “open source” may vary. (Specifically, they have an enterprise business model, so this is more properly a proprietary, source-available on-prem Segment competitor.)

Founder here. Yes, that is an appropriate statement. We want to be a business on the likes of Mattermost, Kafka, ElasticSearch and so on. We are committed to building an open-source community. Honestly, we were not prepared for this post. We don't even have a license attorney. We just picked SSPL because that's what everyone seemed to suggest to prevent the likes of AWS cloning it. By no means we are an expert.

Since you have chosen the SSPL in order to stop companies free riding off your work, you may want to also look at https://licensezero.com as another license option for this or other work you release.

“Open source” software and “free” software as concepts have become entangled to an unhealthy level. Burnout and software project sustainability issues are important to be aware of and manage if we want to have successful long term open source projects that aren’t just sponsored by large companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook and so on.

So I’m glad you thought ahead and chose the SSPL, good luck and don’t let the haters get to you, at the end of the day it is “open source” and you’ll still be able to feed yourself!

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#19

Post by soumyadeb »

techdragon wrote: post #18
soumyadeb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder here. Yes, that is an appropriate statement. We want to be a business on the likes of Mattermost, Kafka, ElasticSearch and so on. We are committed to building an open-source community. Honestly, we were not prepared for this post. We don't even have a license attorney. We just picked SSPL because that's what everyone seemed to suggest to prevent the likes of AWS cloning it. By no means we are an expert.

Since you have chosen the SSPL in order to stop companies free riding off your work, you may want to also look at https://licensezero.com as another license option for this or other work you release. “Open source” software and “free” software as concepts have become entangled to an unhealthy level. Burnout and software project sustainability issues are important to be aware of and manage if we want to have successful…

Thanks for the reference and for your words of encouragement. Will check out licensezero and DM you if we have any questions.

Re: Rudder, an open source Segment alternative

#20

Post by HillRat »

soumyadeb wrote: post #15
HillRat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve got a strong value proposition, especially in a GDPR/CCPA world. Have you figured out a channel and integration partner strategy yet? That’s probably the hill that you’re going to need to fight on.

No. I don't think we even understand the problem :) You mean, it would be hard to work with all the 200 or so 3rd party providers segment integrates with without having 1-1 relationships with them?

That’s definitely one advantage they have in the market, but it’s also related to your sales strategy. You’re looking for companies that have both the need for large-scale streaming customer and analytics data routing and transformation, no existing investment in Segment, and the ability to manage the on-prem IT and development load. While you can probably go after smaller and more agile fish with, e.g., recipes for common needs, this reads a lot like big enterprise transformation sales and support, so you might want to look at connecting with established players who are already selling in those markets — consulting orgs, analytic tools vendors, or software companies selling things like API-first e-comm, where you’re upending legacy stacks.
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