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Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

al3x.net

61–70 of 99 posts

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#61
I always appreciate a quality call, but I can't agree that native is a good proxy for good UI or even just for the principle of least surprise. We use so many different UIs nowadays. Various OSs, crazy web UIs, different phones, games, vim, etc. So for me, the question is not so much "is this app native?" but rather "am I a native of the app's UI? (or let's say naturalized :)". iCal doesn't feel native to me, even though I use a Mac. It feels awkward after having used Google Calendar for a while. (I would even say iCal has a horrible UI but that's another matter)

I happen to think that a good UI is not just a matter of getting used to it, although that's a big part of it. There are some things I do hundereds if not thousands of times a day, and I want them to be very fast, regardless of what is native. I want them to be the same in that particular app on all platforms I use. I don't want the keyboard shortcuts of gmail or vim to change depending on what machine I happen to use.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#62
Very good article. We use Yammer and their AIR client is a constant source of frustration. Bloated, CPU-eating, inconsistent and annoying.

I use Balsamiq Mockups when I have to, but I always find the experience annoying. If there was a Mac-native app with similar functionality, I'd switch in an instant.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#63
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Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#64
"It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer."

They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us".

"People seem to hate AIR. Wherever you see AIR apps, there are support forum threads opened by customers begging for a native alternative"

I've personally never noticed this, got any examples?

Let me say here: I'm not a fan of AIR - I'm completely indifferent to it as a technolgoy - but so far you're just bitching about your personal experiences with one application and wishing the world were different from how it is so you'd find it more enjoyable.

"a moderator sheepishly explaining that they just don’t “have the time” "

What's to be sheepish about!? There's no shame in not having the time to build native apps for every platform. I don't have the time to write all of my code in assembly so I use high level languages. If you tried to run a modern operating system on 1980s hardware you wouldn't get particularly far. Technologies are built and adopted to improve productivity and get products to market faster - AIR is one of these. Whether or not it is the best choice for one application or another, or whether you happen to enjoy it or not has no bearing on how much actual time a company or individual has to develop software! They make a choice about a technology based on their goals and the information at their disposal. Why should they be feeling sheepish?

"The fact that some subset of users are willing to shell out for these native apps should be a wake-up call. That’s money that those service providers are letting slip away."

No, it's money they're making by opening their product using an API and not trying to be all things to all people. By allowing 3rd party developers to build on their platform they still get your money, but they just don't have to do any extra work for it building a native app for your platform.

"In a nutshell, what you’re communicating with an AIR app is that your business priorities (saving time and money) are more important than what your customers want."

Or maybe you're just trying to build a minimum value proposition, make some money, test the market, receive feedback, learn something, iterate and improve. You seem to think these guys are dishing up an AIR application in an afternoon then taking your hard earned cash and throwing it onto a gigantic "Scrooge McDuck" style money bin, then taking the yacht out for an afternoon spin to laugh at their sucker customers. You don't like the product, don't bloody buy it! That's what the free market is there for.

"“We don’t have time” is the common excuse for delivering an AIR app instead of a good native app. Money, though, can buy someone else’s time. For a price, you can find a great contractor to build a native app for any platform under the sun."

Okay then why don't you build this app that you're after? Just learn to program, then build it yourself. Oh, don't have time? Well just pay someone else to do it for you. If you have the money, fantastic, compete and make a better product. What makes you think that these people are any different from you? That they don't exist in the same world of limitations and constraints that we all do every single day of our lives?

"Humans are gifted with extremely sensitive bullshit detectors."

Yeah mine started going fucking bonkers about paragraph 2 ...

You could have made this article about how flawed you think AIR is as a technology, cited examples of applications that have vocal user communities looking for a native app etc.

Instead you've just made outlandish claims that people building technology and working to create products are lazy, that they're somehow compelled to produce mediocre products (rather than settling for the best they can afford to produce and shipping something in the hopes that some people will get good use out of it).

Software is a constant process of settling for mediocrity. Nothing is ever finished. No software developer has ever typed one last semi-colon, sit back and said "you know what? There's nothing else I'd add to that, it's perfect".

Who keeps upvoting this!?

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#65
So what should I take away from this? That businesses should focus on customers using Windows first?

If the team is small and the product has some value to you, it only means the team focused on the right featureset.

Personally I'm grateful if an AIR client is available, because that means I can use it on Linux, my OS.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#66
post #16

I've never liked AIR and QT/WebKit apps (or even the Opera web browser) because there's this feeling similar to that of Uncanny Valley, where something just doesn't feel right. The scroll bar doesn't work well, something happens too fast or too slow, selection doesn't behave as it should, the buttons look weird. Something along those lines.

I think "Uncanny Valley" is exactly right. It was something we faced when building an AIR app, we could mimic the look of the each OS pretty closely but it never felt quite right. In the end we opted to a stylize feel of each OS but not an attempt to recreate the look and feel exactly.

I second that, Uncanny Valley is exactly it. It was the same a few years ago on the web when web apps tried to duplicate native functionality (think filebrowsers etc.), it never worked right. In fact, Dropbox (however much I love it) still has that problem in their web UI.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#67
post #49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your new working hypothesis is what, that Mac users secretly prefer Java UIs? That might prove too much. I don't think it's a secret that Mac users are, by and large, more comfortable than Windows users at paying for and installing software. The paradox of choice is in less egregious effect, and they have fewer scars from past attempts.

No, that's clearly not his new working hypothesis.

How about: Users prefer "good" UI. Users evaluate "good" partly in terms of expectations.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#68

I think what it comes down to is that as a developer, you've lost your way if you're creating a product you personally wouldn't want to use. Even if it were the case that the average user might not be that turned off by AIR (and I'm not convinced that's the case), if you've decided to base your product on a platform that's basically a deal-breaker if you're shopping around for apps (as AIR is for me), then I think yo…

I think what it comes down to is minimum viable product. Perhaps even budgeting. Maybe an assumption that since you don't like AIR, you can't see anyone else liking it.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#69
post #64

" It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer. " They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". " People seem t…

"People seem to hate AIR. Wherever you see AIR apps, there are support forum threads opened by customers begging for a native alternative"

I've personally never noticed this, got any examples?

In the post you're quoting, he linked to four forum threads for four separate products, along with a couple of blog posts.

Re: Shortchanging Your Business with User-Hostile Platforms

#70
post #64

" It seemed like a decision that had everything to do with what’s in the best interests of the business, and nothing to do with what’s good for the customer. " They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us". " People seem t…

They already told you they're a small team, with mostly windows users and AIR allowed them to offer a cross platform solution. This is a polite way of saying "you're an outlier, you're not our target user, please go away and stop bothering us".

Alex's point is that they should have built a native windows app in that case. Even on Windows, AIR apps kinda suck.

It all comes down to the oft-rehashed point from 37signals: build half a product, not a half-assed product.

AIR always feels half-assed. It's slow, resource-intensive, doesn't look like the other apps, and generally gives a slightly uncomfortable feeling.

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