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Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

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Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#141
I really love Gatsby. It combines the best of both worlds: static sites and React.

For a very long time, I've been fond of Jekyll. It's mostly because my open source projects are hosted on GitHub and Jekyll is their go-to framework. There's nothing wrong per se with Jekyll. I was simply missing some features from React.

When I was working on React apps, the main benefits for me were: (i) component encapsulation and (ii) CSS Modules. It's easy to understand what a component does just by looking at it. If it gets too complicated, you can simply split it into another component. And CSS Modules are a life saver. The two hardest things in CSS are floats and naming things. That second part is solved now.

My issue with React however is the whole Webpack setup, and the fact that JS is required to run the website.

So when Gatsby appeared, I was pleasantly surprised to see it solved these issues. I ended up rebuilding my website with Gatsby, and I'm currently using it for 2 client projects.

My only issue with Gatsby is its reliance on GraphQL. I tried understanding the GraphQL concepts and purpose, especially with its weird syntax, but it feels over-engineered. Or at least, it doesn't feel like Gatsby needs GraphQL. So I'm not sure why it's so tightly tied to it. What I end up doing for fetching/storing data is using some static JSON files. It's easy to read, to port, and to parse.

I only use GatsbyJS.org the open source project, not GatsbyJS.com the service. But it seems to be similar to WordPress.org/WordPress.com, or what Ghost does. Even if the open source project somehow died, I wouldn't feel stuck with the framework ; since most of the codebase are React components, it'd be easy to port to another platform. That's another benefit.

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a couple hundred lines of code could address the issues that Gatsby addresses. The posters here aren't wrong. It is an overhyped, overbloated, overconfig heavy stack that ultimately renders static html. I have used them, they are exactly as these posters say.

do you have any suggestions for people like myself, who aren't interested in or are not capable of building their own proprietary static site generator? Any tools that meet similar needs to those that gatsby meets that you would recommend and why?

Wordpress has plugins that can export the site as a static site.

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#143
post #113
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

" Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The frustrating thing is, how, precisely, are you supposed to teach that every bit of complexity isn't necessary, the world hasn't changed, and a few-hundred-line solution works fine?

This is an entirely serious question. I've got multiple few-hundred-line projects in development at work replacing internal tools - yes, they solve 90% of the use cases but the remaining 10% were generally either ill-advised or theoretical - and I don't know either how to get teams of developers not to build bloated messes or how to communicate that my smaller product shouldn't be taken less seriously for having fewer LOC.

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#144
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with your tone and cynicism, and disagree w/ your premise. Your sarcasm and condescension aren't helpful. And there's no way your "couple hundred lines of code" addressed more than a fraction of the real-world use cases addressed by Gatsby. You cast aspersions on a huge swath of your peers who work with the best tools at hand to solve difficult problems... it's not just arrogant, it's ignorant. IME it's…

As someone who has both used Gatsby and written custom static HTML generators, I do feel that Gatsby is far more complex than it needs to be. > there's no way your "couple hundred lines of code" addressed more than a fraction of the real-world use cases addressed by Gatsby Gatsby on its own doesn't actually do much. There are plugins to do most useful things. Here's an example: https://www.gatsbyjs.org/packages/gatsb…

> And don't even get me started on migrating from Gatsby 2 to 3

I would actually love to get you started on this point. I have not heard of Gatsby 3. As far as I'm aware, Gatsby v2 is the latest. How do you migrate to 3?

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#145
I evaluated Gatsby, among other solutions, for our company's website. We use React in production for a large application, nothing new there, but for a static site, I thought it had an overly-complicated build pipeline. In the end, we went with Hugo[1], never regretted, huge fan of static site generators and Netlify CMS[2].

About raising that series A, I hope they have a bigger plan in mind than hosting sites or yet another CMS. If the vision is the "reinvent" the way we work on static sites, I respect that, but I don't see a business case there.

[1]: https://gohugo.io [2]: https://www.netlifycms.org/

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#146
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean "overly-complicated" as in for people who don't work in the industry and just speculate on trends?

Well, it's not really targeted at actual developers.

You need to know JS to use Gatsby, so... seems like development to me?

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#147
post #93

A static page framework that shoves content into a client side graphql store and then extracts bits out to render a page? It's popular, so I can't say it was a bad idea. I guess I'll just say I must be old because it sounds like satire.

Let me offer a real-world example.

We were once tasked to build a website for a small publishing house. The site would have pages of books and of authors. Each book page would link to the page(s) of the book's author(s). Each author's page would have thumbnail(s) of this author's book(s). There was also to be an index page, which would contain various books, with names of respective authors, and links to each book's and author's page. It was almost like describing a simple relational database.

Except we wanted the site to be static, and the data about books and authors to be stored in yaml files on github. So book page, author page and index page needed to learn about each other at build time by reading the frontmatter of the yaml files.

With Gatsby's graphql data layer doing so would be trivial, and the whole developer experience would have been highly satisfying. But we weren't allowed to use Gatsby, because the size of the main javascript file that Gatsby (coupled with Netlify CMS) would output was approximately 100 kB, and our tech lead had a strong aversion to large javascript files and to what he considered an overengineered framework. So we had to use Hugo instead. Which we did. Hugo, bless it, also allowed building relationships between data files at build time; but the way it did so was so unintuitive and its Go-based templating language was so cumbersome that I hated almost every moment of working with Hugo. Besides, barebones Hugo did not have a flexible enough static assets pipeline, so we had to write our own (gulp) scripts for bundling static assets. With Gatsby, that would have come out of the box.

Gatsby may not be the technology for building lightest-weight sites (no matter how much the Gatsby team emphasises their commitment to performance), but the developer experience when working with Gatsby is unsurpassable.

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean "overly-complicated" as in for people who don't work in the industry and just speculate on trends?

Not OP but the mess that is node and its ecosystem is indeed overly-complicated

It's hidden away behind layers of stuff for the most part, but, I agree (and this is coming from someone who works with Gatsby every day); I recently added Typescript support as well so now, with the handful of packages we have in our monorepo, it's becoming a convoluted mess of webpack, babel, typescript, and the tooling in between like gatsby and storybook, which do configuration sliiightly different.

Honestly I got so frustrated with dealing with dependency hell the other day that I only half-jokingly said I was going to go back to writing vanilla ES5, whichever the last version that still works on IE is. It's just too much of an obscure headache, too much tooling and intermediary steps.

I can't get our error reporting tool to work properly because the source maps are a confusing jumble either.

Mind you this is aimed at the JS ecosystem in its current state; Gatsby itself has been great.

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#149
post #87

I don't really like Gatsby's product, but I've got to admit that their business strategy makes a lot of sense. It's a pretty good three-step approach: 1. Convince the WordPress/enterprise crowd to switch over, both by touting the genuine benefits of static sites (security, scalability, TTFB performance, etc.) and by riding the Cool Kid Front-End Stack hype train. 2. Lock them in with an overly-complicated framework a…

> Convince the WordPress/enterprise crowd to switch over The Gatsby homepage mentions Wordpress as a possible data source. I don't evens see mention of their CMS on the front page. The only "service" I see them advertising there is Preview - which seems to be a development collaboration tool. I don't think they're convincing people to move away from Wordpress. It's funny that the article talks about moving away from…

Yeah this isn't a Wordpress replacement; it's a framework for creating websites and / or hybrid websites, the way I see it. In that regard it competes with Next, Nest and Nuxt (I don't even know the last two, I lifted that from https://slides.com/seldo/jsconf-eu-2019#/60 ; are those all based on / similar to Next? They should fix their naming)

Re: Gatsby raises $15M Series A for its modern web development platform

#150
post #116

I would not recommend to use Gatsby in a project if it requires a frontend with complexity beyond static-scrollable content. Some problems that I found after some months of integrating it with an existing CMS: * Development complexity: depending if Gatsby is run on development or production mode, React's `render` methods are called in the browser or inside NodeJS. Having this code executed in a Node process is expect…

Now to be honest, the global idea seems good (static websites built with React) Out of interest, what's good about building static websites with React?

If you're looking at purely static websites, then it's just a way to structure your application; matter of taste, I reckon, and there's plenty of alternatives on the market that go back twenty years if need be. That said, personally I'm quite fond of the component based approach to building websites - and React isn't the only player there.

But the strengths show when you combine it with e.g. Gatsby which turns it into a hybrid website + app. For first time visitors, search engines, and people with JS disabled it's just static HTML, simple. But for most visitors (browsers, JS enabled etc), after the first load it turns into a webapp and any pageview only requires a single .json file to be pulled in, which can be prefetched (on link hover for example) as well. This gives it the performance characteristics of a single-page app.

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