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Leninthink

newcriterion.com

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Re: Leninthink

#11

Post by crazydoggers »

justsubmit wrote: post #9
arcadius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be a common game with ignorant right and ignorant left (I can think of a million instances of ignorant right-wing people rambling on incessantly about the "socialist" part of national socialist german workers' party). The difference I suppose is that fascism is a far-right ideal and not a far-left one. Also the fact that the far-right in the United States are in some cases literal neonazis.

> fascism is a far-right ideal and not a far-left one. That myth underlies much of the misunderstanding in contemporary political discourse.

I’m not sure how you justify this? If one is going to define politics along a spectrum like left to right, fascism is going to be grouped with other political systems that tend toward nationalism and nativist policies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re: Leninthink

#12

Post by tptacek »

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

Re: Leninthink

#13

Post by justsubmit »

crazydoggers wrote: post #11
justsubmit wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fascism is a far-right ideal and not a far-left one. That myth underlies much of the misunderstanding in contemporary political discourse.

I’m not sure how you justify this? If one is going to define politics along a spectrum like left to right, fascism is going to be grouped with other political systems that tend toward nationalism and nativist policies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Control the terminology -> control the discourse -> control the narrative -> control politics -> control everything. That's how the Left operates. cf. Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals"

In other words, Wikipedia is not an unbiased source. Rather than throw links at you, suffice it to say that there are other criteria by which political spectra may be defined. Let the reader understand.

Re: Leninthink

#14

Post by mirimir »

tptacek wrote: post #12

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

I'm curious about your basis for that.

It's not that I'm familiar with it, and am claiming that it's not. It's just that, based on a few minutes of browsing, nothing obviously "avidly pro-Trump" jumped out.

Edit: I also browsed some discussion of other submissions from it, and didn't find anything obviously politicized. But then, I didn't read it all.

Re: Leninthink

#15

Post by justsubmit »

tptacek wrote: post #12

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

We know that "vociferously anti-Trump, epic-karma HN user" does. It's worthwhile to know what you represent, as well.

Re: Leninthink

#16

Post by tptacek »

mirimir wrote: post #14
tptacek wrote: post #12

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

I'm curious about your basis for that. It's not that I'm familiar with it, and am claiming that it's not. It's just that, based on a few minutes of browsing, nothing obviously "avidly pro-Trump" jumped out. Edit: I also browsed some discussion of other submissions from it, and didn't find anything obviously politicized. But then, I didn't read it all.

You're not meant to immediately sense it; that's part of the point. The New Criterion was started as a corrective to supposed left-wing orthodoxy in lit/crit, and spent time as a house organ of (true) neoconservative, but was inherited by Roger Kimball, who I believe you can fairly sum up by citation to his non-ironically titled essay "Trump As Pericles".

Re: Leninthink

#17

Post by tptacek »

justsubmit wrote: post #15
tptacek wrote: post #12

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

We know that "vociferously anti-Trump, epic-karma HN user" does. It's worthwhile to know what you represent, as well.

Sure, that's fair. I am certainly that.

Re: Leninthink

#18

Post by crazydoggers »

justsubmit wrote: post #13
crazydoggers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how you justify this? If one is going to define politics along a spectrum like left to right, fascism is going to be grouped with other political systems that tend toward nationalism and nativist policies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Control the terminology -> control the discourse -> control the narrative -> control politics -> control everything. That's how the Left operates. cf. Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals" In other words, Wikipedia is not an unbiased source. Rather than throw links at you, suffice it to say that there are other criteria by which political spectra may be defined. Let the reader understand.

Well it doesn’t really suffice it to say. You can’t expect the reader to take your word for it. Wikipedia at least has primary sources that anyone can examine. Sounds like conspiracy theory claptrap.

Re: Leninthink

#19

Post by mirimir »

tptacek wrote: post #16
mirimir wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about your basis for that. It's not that I'm familiar with it, and am claiming that it's not. It's just that, based on a few minutes of browsing, nothing obviously "avidly pro-Trump" jumped out. Edit: I also browsed some discussion of other submissions from it, and didn't find anything obviously politicized. But then, I didn't read it all.

You're not meant to immediately sense it; that's part of the point. The New Criterion was started as a corrective to supposed left-wing orthodoxy in lit/crit, and spent time as a house organ of (true) neoconservative, but was inherited by Roger Kimball, who I believe you can fairly sum up by citation to his non-ironically titled essay "Trump As Pericles".

Ah. Thank you.

I'm going to have to read that one.

Edit: OK, it was short.[0] But I also came across an article by historian Matthew A. Sears,[1] which points out ...

> There is a much darker side to Pericles’ legacy, however. For one, he narrowed the group eligible for Athenian citizenship, requiring both parents to be Athenian citizens — a requirement, ironically, that his own children did not meet.

> And, as is increasingly the view among ancient historians, he bore perhaps more responsibility than anyone else for the outbreak of the Peloponnesian War, a ruinous 27-year conflict between Athens and Sparta that ended in Athens’ defeat and the temporary overthrow of the world’s first democracy.

> A frequent criticism of Pericles among his contemporaries was that he took a hard line against Sparta and pushed his city toward war not due to any higher principle or strategic goal, but to deflect charges brought against his closest friends and political allies.

0) https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/269472/

1) https://theconversation.com/do-something-trump-pericles-and-...

Re: Leninthink

#20

Post by crazydoggers »

tptacek wrote: post #12

What ever else you think of this piece, it's worthwhile to know what The New Criterion is and what it represents. Though I suppose "Avidly Pro-Trump Literary Journal" is a concept that easily clears HN's bar for "intellectually interesting".

Thanks for the insight. I found this article discussing New Criterion which I found interesting.

https://thebaffler.com/latest/decline-of-the-new-criterion-g...

Regarding the article, from what I know about Lenin, it’s spot on, and if you ever talk to anyone who survived his dekulakization [1] you’ll understand the violent nature of Leninism.

But I’m not a fan of a propaganda outfit that likes to hide behind the occasional high intellect piece, so thanks again for the comment.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

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