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DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

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Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#111
post #13

> The information accessed is not sufficient to make fraudulent charges on your payment card. In other words... "We leaked a bunch of your personal information, but at least it's not enough data to steal your money!" All of these leaks have the cumulative effect of making ineffective very commonly used security verification questions: "Can I verify that last 4 of your social? And the last 4 of your credit card?" How…

Hell, imagine how many scans of people’s passports and driver’s licenses are sitting in databases waiting to be leaked, yet images of those documents let you authenticate with all sorts of financial institutions online from banks to Coinbase to Paypal. We really need to rethink all this. Until then, it feels like mere luck that today wasn’t the day someone decided to social engineer their way into your life. Everythi…

I think we need a hierarchy of identity verification.

At the top, we'd have in-person verification using physical documents, such as passport, driver's license, birth certificate, and similar. A good candidate to handle this level is banks and credit unions, at their branch offices.

To handle people who can't come in in-person to set up their account at a top level verification service, there could be top level providers that send a notary to you to check your documents.

Online access to top level accounts should require 2FA. Account recovery in the case of lost passwords or lost second factor or lost recovery codes would require another in-person verification.

Next down in the hierarchy would be services like email providers. When you set up your account with them, you should be able to associate it with one of your accounts at a top level provider, and there should be a way for the email provider to verify with the top level provider and with you that you really are the owner of that top level account.

Account recovery for these accounts requires re-verifying with the associated top level provider.

Below that are services that use your email address as your identity. They verify you the usual way--sending an email and requiring you to prove that you received it. Account recovery requires the same kind of verification.

The idea is that everything is ultimately rooted with your top level providers. If you can protect those accounts, then everything below has protection. Someone might still temporarily hijack your Twitter account or even your email account, if you aren't using strong 2FA and your password leaks, but you can do an account recovery using the account that is above it in the identity hierarchy.

For banks that serve as top level verification services, this should be separate from online banking accounts. People need to routinely log into online banking, but should only very rarely need to use their verification account. The verification account generally only needs to be used when creating a new account one step down the hierarchy, such as a new primary email account or a new account at a domain registrar, or when recovering a lost or hijacked email or domain account.

It should thus be feasible to not store your top level password online at all. It can be on a printed document kept where you store other important documents, such as in your fire proof safe with your passport and birth certificate.

On another topic--sites really should clearly document how things like account recovery works. If a site that requires 2FA for login allows configuring whether that is via SMS, TOTP, or U2F...but then it turns out that you can always do account recovery via SMS even if you disabled that as a 2FA method for login, I want to know that up front, so that I know that switching to TOTP or U2F doesn't actually protect me against account theft. At many sites, the only way to actually find out how account recovery works is to go through it, and that is annoying.

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#112

I've been vending myself unique email addresses for every online account I use for about 3 years. They are nice because I can reply to them like a regular mail and my actual email account gets stripped out automagically. I've been considering making it a product and I wonder in this case what people would want to do when the account data gets leaked? 1. blackhole all email to the address. 2. forward all email to some…

Some email services let you receive to a wildcard, so anything on your domain.

Also I believe Blur already does this (the company name may have changed but I forget)

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#114
post #6

I feel bad for the people affected but at least the scummy company got what it deserved for stealing tips (for those unaware, they used to withhold the total tips out of a delivery drivers base compensation so essentially taking the tips for themselves). Now if they could just completely die so a more ethical competitor can take its place it would be even better.

They did no such thing, and I find it frustrating that people keep repeating this falsehood. Doordash promised to pay drives at least $X (where X was, I believe $1 or something like that) AND that the driver will make at least $Y from the delivery. The driver always gets the tip, plus a variable amount from DD. This is _exactly_ how it works for wait staff in restaurants in most states, except that is by hour instead…

That just means that restaurants are stealing tips, too.

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#115
post #108

I propose a way to improve cybersecurity: FINE companies who loose sensitive customer data to hackers. Fines can be calculated according to the "breach severity grid" which is based on the type of data that is lost. For example: 1. Personal address, DOB - $15. 2. Each social security $20. 3. Driver license number $25. 4. Bank account numbers $30. etc. So a loss of 4.9 million social security numbers, DOB and addresse…

I would add passwords to the list of fines with growing penalties based on how the passwords were stored.

Unique salt per user hash < shared salt with user hash < no salt but using strong hash < no salt and a weak algorithm like MD5 or SHA-1 < plaintext

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#116
post #13

> The information accessed is not sufficient to make fraudulent charges on your payment card. In other words... "We leaked a bunch of your personal information, but at least it's not enough data to steal your money!" All of these leaks have the cumulative effect of making ineffective very commonly used security verification questions: "Can I verify that last 4 of your social? And the last 4 of your credit card?" How…

"It's only 200 of Cambridge Analytica's 5000 data points about you."

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#117
post #6

I feel bad for the people affected but at least the scummy company got what it deserved for stealing tips (for those unaware, they used to withhold the total tips out of a delivery drivers base compensation so essentially taking the tips for themselves). Now if they could just completely die so a more ethical competitor can take its place it would be even better.

got what they deserved? this won’t affect their business in the slightest.

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#118
post #13

> The information accessed is not sufficient to make fraudulent charges on your payment card. In other words... "We leaked a bunch of your personal information, but at least it's not enough data to steal your money!" All of these leaks have the cumulative effect of making ineffective very commonly used security verification questions: "Can I verify that last 4 of your social? And the last 4 of your credit card?" How…

Surely the actual problem here is that the responsibility for reliable identification somehow falls on the consumer, not the bank or what have you? I'll give an example: if I get a phishing email claiming to be from my bank, and end up wiring them $1000, I'm out $1000 for not having done the due diligence for verifying that it in fact was my bank; my bank doesn't suddenly owe me $1000. Somehow, though, if some 3rd pa…

It already is. If you wake up one morning, and somebody else has been withdrawing money from your account, or charging your credit card, the bank already is liable for that, and will reimburse you. The losses from fraud are already written into their margins, the same way the losses from shoplifting are written into a retailers margins.

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#119
post #86
post #13

> The information accessed is not sufficient to make fraudulent charges on your payment card. In other words... "We leaked a bunch of your personal information, but at least it's not enough data to steal your money!" All of these leaks have the cumulative effect of making ineffective very commonly used security verification questions: "Can I verify that last 4 of your social? And the last 4 of your credit card?" How…

What websites are storing your mother’s maiden name? Besides maybe the bank

23andme.

If they get hacked... well, say goodbye to maiden name as a verification!

Re: DoorDash confirms data breach affected 4.9M customers, workers and merchants

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the actual problem here is that the responsibility for reliable identification somehow falls on the consumer, not the bank or what have you? I'll give an example: if I get a phishing email claiming to be from my bank, and end up wiring them $1000, I'm out $1000 for not having done the due diligence for verifying that it in fact was my bank; my bank doesn't suddenly owe me $1000. Somehow, though, if some 3rd pa…

> Somehow, though, if some 3rd party convinces the bank they're me, and withdraws $1000 from my account, I'm at fault as a victim of "identity fraud" (and am again out $1000, but this time as a result of my bank's incompetence). This isn't true, though. The bank is the one on the hook.. eventually. The problem, of course, is that you have to get the bank to agree that it wasn't you who made the withdraw.. While it su…

The type of fraud you described (or at least a very close version of it) is already possible, and happens all the time. The way they manage this is that wire fraud is a federal crime, that will land you with a lot more prison time than you might think.
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