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Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

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Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#111

Post by alexis_fr »

t34543 wrote: post #93
mbarronj wrote: post #37

I call them "Secret Plans". You gotta save up the emotional energy and reward. On so many projects, you get the same neuro-chemical reward by talking about your project plans and how cool the result will be, as you do by making progress. By holding out, and only allowing progress itself to be a reward, and not just the talking, I usually get much further. The project may still die, but then I have something in my han…

This is why I refuse to do stand ups

Standups to me are just a way to ensure everyone is awake. And able to answer a simple question and make a sentence. I don’t exactly care about the contents, except from time to time when it makes us notice that a colleague is on a wrong track.

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#112

Post by endorphone »

kazinator wrote: post #69
GCA10 wrote: post #31

This article treats all types of announcements as being equal. Not so! A hazy announcement like "I'll be doing more to fight climate change" may indeed be empty virtue signaling that leads to nothing. But what about a more precise announcement like: "I'll be writing a book on Topic X, which I plan to publish 15 months from now, and I'll be completing one chapter on the 25th of every month until then"? Now we've got i…

The problem is that if the person is looking for some sort of validation, and the responses from people are ho-hum (or, worse, negative) that has a demotivating effect. "Nobody is excited about my plan now; nobody will care when it gets done; why bother."

Alternately, people will be excited and encouraging for someone's announced plans, and the execution will feel like it's all downhill.

It's interesting that the GP mentioned that climate stuff is "virtue signalling", but announcing that you're writing a book is beneficial. Both are absolutely meaningless claims until there is execution, and announcements are self-sabotage or worse.

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#113

Post by high_derivative »

t34543 wrote: post #93
mbarronj wrote: post #37

I call them "Secret Plans". You gotta save up the emotional energy and reward. On so many projects, you get the same neuro-chemical reward by talking about your project plans and how cool the result will be, as you do by making progress. By holding out, and only allowing progress itself to be a reward, and not just the talking, I usually get much further. The project may still die, but then I have something in my han…

This is why I refuse to do stand ups

I found the best response to standups in a prior job was to randomise a delay about ongoing work. Simply talk about what you did 2-5 days ago (depending on urgency of things). This obfuscates your exact productivity and takes away organisational power from micro-managing bosses.

Whenever a manager comes in or there is a meeting to check on your progress, you can slice of something from your buffer to present. For every problem you present (from few days) ago, you can already present the solution.

Or, in other words: Your productivity is some process that you don't want to be observed directly by your manager, because you will suffer negative consequences from them detecting the exact amplitudes. You simply apply non-stationary smoothing to it.

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#115

Post by [deleted] »

tunesmith wrote: post #79

Note the followup link he posts at the end: https://www.bassam.com/single-post/CSI-TED-Talks-What-Derek-... Where it comes out in support of stating goals in some circumstances, and clarifies that what it's really against is saying things like "I want to be a lawyer", because then what that means is that you'll be apt to behave consistently with wanting to be a lawyer, and not with taking the steps to actually become…

[deleted]

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#116

Post by hollerith »

esotericn wrote: post #80
tunesmith wrote: post #79

Note the followup link he posts at the end: https://www.bassam.com/single-post/CSI-TED-Talks-What-Derek-... Where it comes out in support of stating goals in some circumstances, and clarifies that what it's really against is saying things like "I want to be a lawyer", because then what that means is that you'll be apt to behave consistently with wanting to be a lawyer, and not with taking the steps to actually become…

Precisely. You don't "want" to stick to a vegan diet. You have a vegan diet. The distinction is roughly, between a goal, and a plan. A plan is something that you can immediately begin executing upon. That doesn't mean you won't falter, or that it has to be an on/off switch style revolution, but there's a clear set of things to do. A goal is embryonic. You don't know how, or if, you can achieve it yet.

I am skeptical. Human desires are a thing, and I am going to continue to assume that there is a good reason they are a thing until I have a very detailed and very well tested explanation for why there is no harm in replacing all of my desires with plans.

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#118

Post by milohax »

hollerith wrote: post #116
esotericn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. You don't "want" to stick to a vegan diet. You have a vegan diet. The distinction is roughly, between a goal, and a plan. A plan is something that you can immediately begin executing upon. That doesn't mean you won't falter, or that it has to be an on/off switch style revolution, but there's a clear set of things to do. A goal is embryonic. You don't know how, or if, you can achieve it yet.

I am skeptical. Human desires are a thing, and I am going to continue to assume that there is a good reason they are a thing until I have a very detailed and very well tested explanation for why there is no harm in replacing all of my desires with plans.

I think I understand you. At a lower level, there is a very good reason why, during our teenage years, we develop our prefrontal cortex to moderate between our desires and our actions (and why for all of us, going from childlike "I see, I want, I do" to adult "I see, I want, I plan, I evaluate, I might do") is so traumatic.

That, or you've made a subtle joke which I'm not quite seeing :-)

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#119

Post by milohax »

agota wrote: post #25
taeric wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in seeing that talk, if you can remember who it was. Or have a link. I had thought the opposite was true. Announcing was supposed to be like committing. Curious if it just became a form of virtue signaling.

I'm not the person you replied to, but... Could it be Derek Sivers' TED Talk "Keep your goals to yourself"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHopJHSlVo4

I haven't watched this (I'm on a bus, bandwidth concerns) but the title just made me think: "yes, keep your goals to myself. In a diary. That way I won't be demotivated by premature announcement, yet I'll be bursting to have something to show when I make progress"

Promissing to ones self, for me at least, is a motivator because I trust myself more, and the trust is reinforced as I complete goals. But announcing "I'm doing this thing" either causes anxiety, or demotivates nectar is already our there, as the article describes.

Re: Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009)

#120

Post by pertymcpert »

high_derivative wrote: post #113
t34543 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I refuse to do stand ups

I found the best response to standups in a prior job was to randomise a delay about ongoing work. Simply talk about what you did 2-5 days ago (depending on urgency of things). This obfuscates your exact productivity and takes away organisational power from micro-managing bosses. Whenever a manager comes in or there is a meeting to check on your progress, you can slice of something from your buffer to present. For eve…

Very clever.
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