How Apple Kills Indie Developers • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#11

Post by kazinator » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

Application developers practically tripped over each other in a scramble to join these stores.

Serves them right.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#12

Post by djsumdog » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

dlojudice wrote: post #6

I just think its weird when someone blames Apple for being so much in control of their app store

Developers pay money to access. In the ticket, the developer mentions paying the $99 a year. That's not trivial.

Apple is literally in the top 10 largest companies in the world for several different measures. If they're achieving those numbers by giving the ole F'you to developers, that is a problem. Getting locked out of a distribution platform for 1~3 months, in today's world can cost thousands or even tens of thousands in sales even for small developers.

There are no other options for Apple. You can't install untrusted apps like you can on Android (which is still a huge pain and which no one does).

I almost feel like someone like the EU or California needs to mandate that both Apple and Google allow individual users to add 3rd party repositories in the same way you can on most Linux package managers. They can throw up a big warning about device security if they want, but unless there's regulations around it, there's no way for the average use to actually have control over his or her device.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#13

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

basically this: "You broke a rule. We won't tell you what rule, or how you broke it. But we're going to punish you for it."

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#14

Post by djsumdog » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

fluder wrote: post #9

vxNsr wrote: post #4

Do you have any speculation about why they would do this?

This happened after I revoked the approved app. I found critical bug and reupload my app. After this actions my app was locked :(

Maybe the right solution was to not revoke the current app and just upload the fix? If it was a security bug, that kinda sucks for security, but if the cost is being locked out of your developer account, that might be what developers need to do going forward.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#15

Post by kemayo » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

Glancing at the app store review guidelines[1], I will note that this app's listing[2] is low-key violating the privacy policy requirement by just linking to the github repo for the app, which has no actual privacy policy listed. I have no idea if that's enough for Apple to do a suspension-and-review process like this, but it's definitely a violation.

That said, I think they should include at least some hint in their communications about why they're reviewing you, particularly if it's going to take as long as it looks like this one has.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

[2] https://apps.apple.com/app/fsnotes-manager/id1346501102

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#16

Post by bilbo0s » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

I agree with all the things you say about trying to get more freedom on mobile platforms, but let's not be disingenuous. Allowing more freedom on app stores absolutely increases viruses and malware that can get onto phones. If we aren't honest about that then we won't be out brainstorming methods of avoiding that kind of cesspool.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#17

Post by cumwolf » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

The AppStore experience is miserable. It sucks the life out of you as an independent developer when they reject your app for vague reasons and you know the turn around to get your app reviewed again is going to be another 1-3 days. The quality control is highly variant, sometimes my application goes through intense scrutiny, sometimes it gets rejected purely for user error on their reviewing end and other times it gets accepted without a peep. When they do have complaints and reject your app, you can submit comments or an appeal but they are never responded to or acknowledged. The whole process doesn't make me excited to create another app. I've made two different apps, avaialable on both platforms and the Google Play experience is way overall way easier to deal with, probably because there's less human review & scrutiny involved.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#18

Post by rimliu » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

Outside of the stores you are relying on search engines. Now tell me how SEO is not "an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one".

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#19

Post by filleduchaos » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #12

dlojudice wrote: post #6

I just think its weird when someone blames Apple for being so much in control of their app store

Developers pay money to access. In the ticket, the developer mentions paying the $99 a year. That's not trivial. Apple is literally in the top 10 largest companies in the world for several different measures. If they're achieving those numbers by giving the ole F'you to developers, that is a problem. Getting locked out of a distribution platform for 1~3 months, in today's world can cost thousands or even tens of thou…

> there's no way for the average use to actually have control over his or her device

I feel like comments like this always assume that it's a given that the average user having full control over their devices is a goal that the majority of people agree with and are interested in pursuing.

Unless it can be demonstrated that the lack of control over their smartphones is seriously, tangibly affecting their lives in ways that aren't just ideological, the public at large (and lawmakers by extension) are going to keep right on not really giving a shit if they have Linux-like package management or not.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#20

Post by xenospn » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

This is very odd. I’ve always found interactions with the Apple App Store review people to be very smooth and they always tell me exactly what they’re looking for while reviewing my app. If they can’t find it, i get back to them and they finish their review in under an hour. I get the feeling someone isn’t telling the whole story here.