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Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

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Re: Open offices are a dead end

#191

Post by smt88 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #116
smt88 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular, yes, but you're not wrong because you're talking about only yourself. I think the point many people are trying to make is that open offices decrease productivity for most people .

> I think the point many people are trying to make is that open offices decrease productivity for most people. I don't think people stop there, however. Many people, including the author of the article, go the extra step to say that open offices are bad. I don't think you can argue against the fact that a significant portion of the population works well in open offices, so when you say stuff like "open offices are a…

> Many people, including the author of the article, go the extra step to say that open offices are bad.

So would I. Suggesting they're bad for most people means that they're likely "bad" (i.e. not the best available workspace).

> I don't think you can argue against the fact that a significant portion of the population works well in open offices

If you're defining "works well" as "gets their work done", then I won't dispute it.

That's not the issue though. Do they do their best work? Do they lose productivity to the open office? Do they try to find jobs without open offices?

Yes to all of those questions[1][2][3][4].

> Instead, we should be focusing on finding office situations that work for each of us, and letting others choose office situations that work for them.

That's the thing, though. Remote-only companies are exactly that. You can opt into an office if you want to -- just gather some coworkers or go to a coworking space.

The oppressive decision-making you're referring to is inherent to open-office-only companies, where they say, "If you want to work here, you'll work in a large, loud room full of distractions."

1. https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/new-harvard-study-you-o...

2. https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/harvard-research-op...

3. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/success/tca-the-open...

4. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateharrison/2018/11/07/new-stu...

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#192

Post by sigstoat »

utf985 wrote: post #123

I get a bit bewildered every time I see someone complaining about open offices as it always begs the question - what kind of alternative do they demand exactly? I have addressed this on many threads and comments but somehow I never gen an answer. Only thing I can think of are cubicles but to me they seem a lot worse than the open office and they're definitely not a thing here in Europe. Out of all the companies and i…

> The other thing I suppose is where literally every employee gets their own office. But is that really a thing? Because I've never heard of something like that.

2-3 people in an office with a small room, with a door and a window. put all of the break, utility, conference, etc rooms in the middle. build more like a hotel than a brutalist cube.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#193

Post by kerkeslager »

neogodless wrote: post #182
kerkeslager wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open offices are a productivity booster for some people (myself being one). Of course, WeWork being a company with one product, they try to sell it to everyone, even the people who it doesn't work for. That's a valid criticism of WeWork, but not really a valid criticism of open offices.

How do you measure your productivity? What do you attribute to your increase in productivity in an open floor plan?

> How do you measure your productivity?

The same way everyone measures productivity: subjectively. With software development, measuring productivity objectively is very much an unsolved problem (which is one of the major problems with studies on productivity of different floor plans, incidentally).

> What do you attribute to your increase in productivity in an open floor plan?

1. Generally feeling happier, more energized, and more focused (I'm an extrovert). When I work alone I find myself getting restless, irritable, and distracted.

2. Collaboration. Catching mistakes, soliciting creative ideas, getting information when I don't know something. But really #1 is a much bigger factor for me.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#194

Post by xemdetia »

gregmac wrote: post #63

There's a lot of hate for open offices, yet they're everywhere. There's high demand for developers, and accordingly, the salaries are high. Open offices mainly exist due to cost savings (lower sqft per employee), yet for most businesses salary costs will completely dwarf the cost of office space. Something doesn't add up. Do places with open offices have a harder time finding people? I was trying to find some compari…

I think the trouble is more that open office is generally not something that most people can stomach as a deal killer as a seeking employee. You also generally are deep into the interview process by the time you see the quality of the open office space, and the place you would work maybe doesn't look miserable but its one desk reorg away from making you utterly miserable. There's also the comparative misery- is this more miserable than the job that you are trying to leave? Of all the jobs I looked into in urban northeast areas all but one was open plan, and the last one was cubes. I didn't really have much of a choice.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#196

Post by mukti »

nilkn wrote: post #91
ivl wrote: post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

I think I'd have a less negative reaction if people actually had a decent amount of personal space in these floorplans. In the photo at the top of the article, two people could scarcely yawn and stretch at the same time without making physical contact. If you're towards the end and you want to just take a bathroom break, you'd have to physically weave around people and chairs to get out. My home office that I use for…

That's the kicker for me - when I talk to people who are complaining about open floor plans, they typically work in a place similar to the one pictured in the article. Now, that's not to say that more space necessarily makes it better for productivity, but it will certainly make some difference (at least, to me). Where I work, we have an open floor plan, and we have a good amount of space around our desks. I personally like it, but I can see how its not for everyone. If I were crammed in a tiny space, I would definitely be clamoring for an office.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#197

Post by no_wave »

kerkeslager wrote: post #176
nemetroid wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you can argue against the fact that a significant portion of the population works well in open offices Can you cite a study which asserts this fact ?

You've got numerous people on this page saying they work better in open offices. Do you have some reason for disbelieving them?

Yes? It's easy to feel productive in an open office. There's activity and buzz and you can accomplish nothing for four hours and still feel like you did something. You can't do that in a more private setting, what you're actually getting done is staring you in the face.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#198

Post by toyg »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #184
dtech wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call that an open office though, just a team room. A shared space is fine with <5 people, can become problematic at 5-10 people and the frequently 20+ large floor spaces are just unworkable without noise cancelling headphones.

Agreed, it's just a small room with people in it. BTDT. I worked in london in an open plan office maybe 40ft wide and getting on 200 ft long. That's open plan. It's fine except for the noise. It's always the noise as the problem, all else is ok. (edit: not a single company, a collection of small and medium businesses)

> It's fine except for the noise.

And the utter lack of privacy. Want to tell your colleague that Alex is a dick? Better do it in another building, or the entire office will hear it.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#199

Post by SteveMoody73 »

dtech wrote: post #142
chomp wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the problem is that (in my experience) open offices actually do boost productivity somewhat, but only when the office is a small 2-5 person pod. I lose productivity when I get dropped in a huge floor of people chatting and talking about things not related to what I'm working on.

I wouldn't call that an open office though, just a team room. A shared space is fine with <5 people, can become problematic at 5-10 people and the frequently 20+ large floor spaces are just unworkable without noise cancelling headphones.

I work in an open office with about 30 people in it and find it unbarable on times. I have some good noise cancelling headphones that help sometimes but I can't wear them for too long a period before they start getting uncomfortable.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#200

Post by geodel »

ivl wrote: post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

Great point. I feel the same. If employees are told that company can spend X dollars on office space and hence open office is only thing we can afford, it will be quite better than buzzword productivity bullshit. After all in my experience companies are reasonable straightforward in term of expenses they plan to have on office supplies, hardware/software etc.
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