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Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

161–170 of 307 posts

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own noise cancelling headphones? Mine are worth their weight in gold to me (Sony W-something 1000x Mk2).

I can't do 'em, because of the constant pressure in my ears when I have them on.

Have you tried earbuds v headphones? Anything that sits on / rattles my cartilage is excruciating, but after finding a comfortable pair of earbuds with the big silicone tip on them, I can go a full workday no problem.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#162
post #123

I get a bit bewildered every time I see someone complaining about open offices as it always begs the question - what kind of alternative do they demand exactly? I have addressed this on many threads and comments but somehow I never gen an answer. Only thing I can think of are cubicles but to me they seem a lot worse than the open office and they're definitely not a thing here in Europe. Out of all the companies and i…

> The other thing I suppose is where literally every employee gets their own office. But is that really a thing? Because I've never heard of something like that.

Maybe not an office each, but 2-5 people to a room, with real walls and a door? Absolutely.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#163
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you're an outlier, the overwhelming evidence suggests that the overall output of an open office is substantially less for virtually everybody. People get sick more frequently, and lots of time is lost in non-work-related conversations. This has been measured, and I don't know that it's really up for debate.

I think it is very much up for debate. Let's hypothesize that 60% of people work better in private offices, and 40% work better in open offices. You force everyone to work in a private office, and they perform slightly better than if you force everyone to work in an open office--that perfectly explains the results of the studies. But obviously if this hypothesis is true, then the best solution would be to let the 40%…

How about we let people who want to work from home to work from home and people who need others arpund to work in the office ?

Win - Win situation. Unfortunately it seems too hard to understand for the majority of managers.. (most likely because they represent the later)

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#164

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I like open offices. It's nice being able to turn around and have quick meetings without wasting time looking for a room. It's also nice being able to scoot a chair over to work with a team member on a problem. As a general rule people don't interrupt others if they have headphones on. Maybe it's a problem for companies with product and engineering next to sales. Other than tha…

There's a difference between open team rooms and the kind of office where there's a whole floor of a building with nothing but structural obstructions from window to window. The former can be very nice, the latter is awful.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#165
post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

Open offices are a productivity booster for some people (myself being one).

Of course, WeWork being a company with one product, they try to sell it to everyone, even the people who it doesn't work for. That's a valid criticism of WeWork, but not really a valid criticism of open offices.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#166
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really something to this. A friend of mine recently received an email to her dev shop criticizing her for using PHP. The funny thing is, she knows the guy who sent the email. He runs an IT business and sent an article to her client about the latest web technologies, then the client said "we use PHP, is that OK?" to which IT guy, with close to zero web experience, replied that it wasn't. I was pretty upset on…

Very important parts of the web continue to use PHP. Forget WordPress, we're talking fast, scaleable, well engineered applications built by software engineers, being used by millions of people a day. Built using the same software engineering principles you would use in any other language. It's just a language after all, and both the language and it's community have matured a great deal.

And the market for PHP developers is huge -- thanks to WordPress and legacy systems -- but the pay is much lower in most markets. Why hire someone who knows the fundamentals when you can hire someone who knows the fundamentals and your tech stack?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#167

I used to think that noise was the worst distraction to deal with in an open office until I took a job where a coworker in our open office decided not to practice basic hygiene. The smell is just horrible. It’s far and away the most distracting thing I’ve ever experienced in my career. They dress up and put in effort to look nice in the office, but everyone instantly knows when they walk into a room. Honestly, I’m he…

>Honestly, I’m hesitant to go to HR about it in case it’s a religious/cultural thing

Oy vey.. do you know how absurd that sounds?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#168
post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

I dunno man, I (software engineer for 21 years) like the open office, at my last job we had real offices and my coworker and I cut a huge window sized hole in the drywall between our offices so we could easier communicate/chat. I can’t count how many times a random casual conversation saved the day or generated new ideas. If I need to focus I put on headphones. Logistically it seems unlikely open offices will go away…

There's a balance that needs to be struck. Team spaces probably make the most sense.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#169
post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

> I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster.

But isn't that how you sell anything politically? Take some real or alleged positive aspect, blow it up out of all proportion, be loud and keep the pressure up, ram the agenda down all throats as deeply as it goes.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#170
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you're an outlier, the overwhelming evidence suggests that the overall output of an open office is substantially less for virtually everybody. People get sick more frequently, and lots of time is lost in non-work-related conversations. This has been measured, and I don't know that it's really up for debate.

I think it is very much up for debate. Let's hypothesize that 60% of people work better in private offices, and 40% work better in open offices. You force everyone to work in a private office, and they perform slightly better than if you force everyone to work in an open office--that perfectly explains the results of the studies. But obviously if this hypothesis is true, then the best solution would be to let the 40%…

If you google around, you will find lots of studies on that subject have already been done, and most of them find, that open offices are for the most part are less productive.

The only way to find out if you are right is to test it. Until that is done, it makes most sense to go with, majority of studies.

That said, you suggestion (about having both types) might work in ideal world. In real world you wouldn't really have a choice most of the time, because if your team mostly works in open office, you will miss* out on a lot if working in closed office. And if majority of people work in closed offices, then you loose all the benefits that open offices bring anyway.

So you would end up in whatever team lead decided that its best.

* And likely be considered antisocial.

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