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Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

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Re: Open offices are a dead end

#111

Post by new2628 »

gregmac wrote: post #63

There's a lot of hate for open offices, yet they're everywhere. There's high demand for developers, and accordingly, the salaries are high. Open offices mainly exist due to cost savings (lower sqft per employee), yet for most businesses salary costs will completely dwarf the cost of office space. Something doesn't add up. Do places with open offices have a harder time finding people? I was trying to find some compari…

The term that may answer your dilemma is "investor story-time" -- open offices tell a story to investors, acquirers, etc. of a docile team that collaborates in a creative way, without too much annoying individualism. This story is in fact quite accurate. Possible cost savings are just extra.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#112

Post by chomp »

ivl wrote: post #57

I think I'd have a less negative reaction to open offices if it weren't for the attempt to sell it as a productivity booster . The article even mentions how they're "sold to workers as a boon to collaboration — liberated from barriers, stuffed in like sardines, people would chat more and, supposedly, come up with lots of brilliant new ideas". Thankfully the author also quickly refuted that. Yet the insanity remains,…

I think part of the problem is that (in my experience) open offices actually do boost productivity somewhat, but only when the office is a small 2-5 person pod. I lose productivity when I get dropped in a huge floor of people chatting and talking about things not related to what I'm working on.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#113

Post by madenine »

The best office I ever worked in was an open office... with an open remote work policy. On any given day, only 15-30% of the office would be in; meaning while the office was "open", it was also usually empty and quiet.

People came in when they had in-person meetings, and teams generally fell into a loose schedule to come in on the same days 1-2 times per week.

I thought it provided a good balance; the company need to have a huge space to give people private offices etc, and it was quiet even if someone nearby was on a call.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#114

Post by falafel »

sytse wrote: post #31

I think offices are a dead end. With 4G, Slack, Zoom, and Google Docs we're able to work from anywhere. No need to commute anymore. And no need to constrain your team to the city you have an office in. The only thing is that remote should not be an afterthought but you should organize for it https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/ just like you invest time to run an office.

As a remote employee, I fully agree. Also, can we stop polluting the environment unnecessarily? There are too many cars on the road with just one person inside. How many of those people really need to commute into an office every day because the job requires it?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#115

Post by themodelplumber »

pmlnr wrote: post #90
scarface74 wrote: post #16

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

> - up to date with technology and great chances for resume building. Resume driver development is bad for the planet, you, for everything. Java programmers still find jobs; COBOL programmers are still needed; FORTRAN is still alive, so I'd rather find something that will not go away in my lifetime than trying to keep up with trends.

There's really something to this. A friend of mine recently received an email to her dev shop criticizing her for using PHP. The funny thing is, she knows the guy who sent the email. He runs an IT business and sent an article to her client about the latest web technologies, then the client said "we use PHP, is that OK?" to which IT guy, with close to zero web experience, replied that it wasn't.

I was pretty upset on her behalf because she and her team do really awesome work and it's not like they are using the same PHP you'd use back in the early 2000s.

I'm wondering if paying so much attention to new tech just naturally makes people a bit more shallow when it comes to actually using tech.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#116

Post by kerkeslager »

smt88 wrote: post #32
umvi wrote: post #23

Unpopular opinion, but I actually think open offices make me more productive. When I'm in a private office, the temptation to watch YouTube, or otherwise read/do unrelated work stuff is much higher. However, I do like having a private office to eat lunch.

Unpopular, yes, but you're not wrong because you're talking about only yourself. I think the point many people are trying to make is that open offices decrease productivity for most people .

> I think the point many people are trying to make is that open offices decrease productivity for most people.

I don't think people stop there, however. Many people, including the author of the article, go the extra step to say that open offices are bad.

I don't think you can argue against the fact that a significant portion of the population works well in open offices, so when you say stuff like "open offices are a dead end", that's a direct attack on the work habits of a significant part of the population.

The combativeness, I think, comes from the fact that almost everyone has been forced to work in a situation that doesn't work for them. But the solution isn't to try to force everyone to use your favored office situation: that's just doing the same thing to others that was done to you. Instead, we should be focusing on finding office situations that work for each of us, and letting others choose office situations that work for them.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#117

Post by octorian »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #107
slackfan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't do 'em, because of the constant pressure in my ears when I have them on.

I never saw this discussed before but I experience the same. I tried different noise cancelling cans and the effect is more or less the same: Audio wise they are great but it feels like I am on a airplane with the need to 'pop' my ears. Like you describe as if there is a stationary positive pressure wave. Anyone know the reason for this? Can it be eliminated?

They to make "passive" noise cancelling earphones. Basically, headphones that are thick and insulated enough to block surrounding noise without needing to cancel it. (Also sold w/o speakers as something construction workers would wear for ear protection.)

I like noise cancelling headphones when on an airplane, but in everyday life I tend to not like the effect either. The older ones gave me a bit of a headache. The new ones just have that pressure you describe.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#118

Post by ping_pong »

I've worked in every type of office in Silicon Valley: private office, shared office, cubicle, cubicle with low walls, and open office. My favorite is open office. It's a different way to work, but I do find it more social and more collaborative. I don't get distracted that easily and I recover easily if someone asks me a question so for me it works fine. I can understand if others feel differently, but for me, open office is definitely my favorite.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#119

Post by DanHulton »

scarface74 wrote: post #16

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

What do you consider "relatively generous PTO"? No axe to grind, I'm just curious.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#120

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

tomp wrote: post #75
scarface74 wrote: post #16

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

> Pay is line with the market Presumably pay should / can be lower in a place where you actually want to work for than in a shitty work environment? > up to date with technology and great chances for resume building. What do you mean "up to date with technology"? IMO most "recent" technology is mostly hype and/or vaporware, and as I get more experienced, I see more and more value in old, reliable, well-supported tech…

This is like saying pay should be lower for NFL players who are allowed to wear helmets because they “want to work there” (not die or get concussions, be successful in their job).

It’s mind-boggling that basic necessities like private working conditions, a tool to get my job done (which is the job that earns my salary), is equivocated with “extras” or “nice-to-haves” that I should give up salary to get. Crazy town.

Wouldn’t you love to work at Acme Co.? We totally don’t cut your hands off, so we pay 20% below market.

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