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Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

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Re: Open offices are a dead end

#72

I don't have an issue with open offices per se but the person in front of me is from another culture and is literally 24/7 in skype calls which distracts me to no end, and the worst part is the he/she is literally /burping and farting/ without any shame. And I don't mean once a day, no, constantly burping and farting, it's honestly disgusting. /rant

So this was happening in my office too. Turns out the person didn't know how to do their job and was interfacing w/ someone back home to get the answers if you will.

Basically the overseas contracting house figured it out was profitable to just get someone hired and have a team of people that actually know what they're doing that can provide support working back home. It's a pretty interesting model but sucks if you get stuck w/ someone like this on your team.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#73

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

Do you own noise cancelling headphones? Mine are worth their weight in gold to me (Sony W-something 1000x Mk2).

Yes, maybe mine aren't the best, but the only way to drown out noise with them is by playing white noise and eventually that gets irritating. I'm also (overly?) concerned with the long term hearing affects of using them.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#74

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

Please be mindful of the pronouns you use in hypotheticals like these. Your intelligent straightforward manager may not use he/him.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#75

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

> Pay is line with the market

Presumably pay should / can be lower in a place where you actually want to work for than in a shitty work environment?

> up to date with technology and great chances for resume building.

What do you mean "up to date with technology"? IMO most "recent" technology is mostly hype and/or vaporware, and as I get more experienced, I see more and more value in old, reliable, well-supported technology. I mean, I'm not dissing on all new tech (Rust?), just saying that just being "new" doesn't make it also "good".

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#76

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

Please be mindful of the pronouns you use in hypotheticals like these. Your intelligent straightforward manager may not use he/him.

re-read the parent, this isn’t a hypothetical.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#77
post #31

I think offices are a dead end. With 4G, Slack, Zoom, and Google Docs we're able to work from anywhere. No need to commute anymore. And no need to constrain your team to the city you have an office in. The only thing is that remote should not be an afterthought but you should organize for it https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/ just like you invest time to run an office.

I agree to an extent. I think remote work is a swing in the opposite direction of open offices, but it can go too far. Remote work does not allow developers to collaborate easily; sometimes getting several people at a white board is necessary and efficient. Offices or very small cube farms (of 4-6 people in an enclosed area) seem an ideal middle ground where people working on the same thing can talk while not being b…

> Remote work does not allow developers to collaborate easily

Laughable; phones have worked for decades. Your brain and mouth and ears don’t stop working, do they? Furthermore you are greatly overestimating the proportion of high intensity local collaboration to grunt work. The vast majority of tech jobs could be remote overnight and nothing would even slow down. These jobs are not hard or collaboration intense regardless how cool your employer makes you feel about coming into the office. It’s just hard work like any job, and in person collaboration is a miniscule part of that. In reality people like their offices and that’s 100% fine, just don’t ask me to move to your city so you can feel more comfortable asking me how something is going or what I think about x idea.

I think acceessibility is a broader issue with remote work—remote desktops don’t play well for the blind.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#78
These kinds of articles surface every couple of months, and when they do I always leave a comment about how much I hate the open office design.

I have trouble focusing with people talking around me (like most people), and I have trouble focusing on coding when I'm listening to music. I don't have an office, so how am I supposed to get stuff done exactly? I could work from my basement office at home, and I do sometimes, but at that point, wouldn't it be better to have just given me a proper office (or at least cubicle) so that I'm actually in the building if people need me?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#79

I wonder if remote work will become standard.

Not gonna happen. Working in an office is cultural, and as long as the majority of jobs require presence (read: almost every non knowledge-worker job) it won't change. Personally I don't like the idea of remote work anyway - I think we're missing a lot of valuable bandwidth. We're social creatures and no amount of technology will change that. That being said, I think the option should be there for those who disagree…

> Working in an office is cultural

Culture changes, and there's a such thing as subculture. Many individual companies have created remote-only subcultures, and they'll become more influential over time.

(Wearing suits to the office used to be cultural and "never going to change".)

> we're missing a lot of valuable bandwidth

But you're also missing lots of destructive bandwidth (interruptions, gossip, etc.)

Remote work allows you to create time/space for the good connections without also formalizing the bad ones. Socializing becomes opt-in instead of opt-out.

> We're social creatures and no amount of technology will change that.

People socialize outside of offices all the time. There's nothing stopping remote coworkers from meeting in the same place every day, going out to lunch, etc.

> A good middle ground would be a mix of remote and in-person work.

This is a difficult line to toe. It works better if the company is 100% remote, or if going to the office is opt-in (like a free perk for those who want it).

If you start with onsite-by-default and try to transition to remote, the people who stay onsite become resentful of the remote workers, and everyone assumes the remote workers are lazier, distracted, etc.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own noise cancelling headphones? Mine are worth their weight in gold to me (Sony W-something 1000x Mk2).

Funny you mention this... I previously worked in an open office layout where it was discouraged and frowned upon to wear noise cancelling headphones. They wanted to support the ability of others to be able to come up to you without feeling like they were interrupting.

They wanted to support the ability of others to b̶e̶ ̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶t̶o̶ interrupt you without feeling like they were interrupting.
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