Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 307 posts

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#61

Post by duxup »

JJMcJ wrote: post #28
duxup wrote: post #8

I have a visceral response to that photo in the article. I do not need folks right on top of me like that. My solution is that I often wear Shooting Earmuffs (you guys who listen to music all the time, i don't get it, i can't do that) to lower my awareness of all the chatter... even when I do have an office. Fortunately folks around me are understanding.

That's spacious by the standards of open offices. I have seen (interviewed at) a company, not a startup, that had two feet deep work surfaces, basically enough to put up a monitor, and chairs about three feet apart. Not really even space to open a notebook on the surface without bothering your neighbor.

A friend ended up at a company like that and for every other reason I'd be happy to work there... but I just don't think I can do the mass of humans and my desk is now cluttered because I have a drink on my desk ...

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#62

Post by diablerouge »

As someone who started out working in an open office and now works someplace with half-cubes, I honestly prefer the open office.

The ability for an open office to foster pair-programming and intense collaboration was a real benefit, though it certainly doesn't suit everyone.

On the other hand, the half-cubes have all the same problems with regard to distractions, but are also major hindrances to working together in my experience. Developers are farther away, the space feels a little claustrophobic, and there are comparatively few good pairing stations.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#63

Post by gregmac »

There's a lot of hate for open offices, yet they're everywhere. There's high demand for developers, and accordingly, the salaries are high. Open offices mainly exist due to cost savings (lower sqft per employee), yet for most businesses salary costs will completely dwarf the cost of office space. Something doesn't add up.

Do places with open offices have a harder time finding people? I was trying to find some comparisons of average salary at places with open offices vs private spaces, but I can't come up with anything. Intuitively, I'd think the salaries would on average be higher at places with open offices, but perhaps that's not a consideration of most people.

How much more money would you need to be paid to make working in an open office worth it? Conversely, would you accept 5% less to get a private space? 10%?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#65

Post by orev »

Rainymood wrote: post #44

I don't have an issue with open offices per se but the person in front of me is from another culture and is literally 24/7 in skype calls which distracts me to no end, and the worst part is the he/she is literally /burping and farting/ without any shame. And I don't mean once a day, no, constantly burping and farting, it's honestly disgusting. /rant

So, in other words, you do have a problem with open offices.

The fact that everyone has a different idea of what’s acceptable behavior in a group setting is pretty much the whole issue with open offices.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#66

Post by saiya-jin »

soneca wrote: post #25
duxup wrote: post #8

I have a visceral response to that photo in the article. I do not need folks right on top of me like that. My solution is that I often wear Shooting Earmuffs (you guys who listen to music all the time, i don't get it, i can't do that) to lower my awareness of all the chatter... even when I do have an office. Fortunately folks around me are understanding.

I just recently discovered I have a super power: easily zoom out from a lot of chatter in a crowded small room. The secret is that I am a non-native English speaker working in the US. I can understand and speak very well... when I am focused on it. If I am not consciously making an effort to understand the chat in the room, it is almost like white noise.

Same for me and all the french/swiss french colleagues around me, I don't think its that special of a skill. I can easily block them talking right through me and they don't interrupt my thought process.

English is a bit harder since I am much better at it and subconsciousness catches up. Never worked in open space in my native language so no clue, probably the hardest.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#67

Post by tombert »

umvi wrote: post #23

Unpopular opinion, but I actually think open offices make me more productive. When I'm in a private office, the temptation to watch YouTube, or otherwise read/do unrelated work stuff is much higher. However, I do like having a private office to eat lunch.

Even if you're an outlier, the overwhelming evidence suggests that the overall output of an open office is substantially less for virtually everybody. People get sick more frequently, and lots of time is lost in non-work-related conversations. This has been measured, and I don't know that it's really up for debate.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#68

Post by cdeonier »

I'm not a fan of open office spaces, but I don't think the article fully captures the problem that the open office space is addressing. Our company has a team dedicated to the design of our office space, and they're trying to balance against multiple stakeholders' needs, from different functions (engineering vs legal), to work environment needs (1:1 vs meeting room vs quiet place), all shoved into a fixed and (relatively) small space. The result is you have to do trade-offs, just like normal engineering problems.

From my understanding, it's easier to scale environments that are open-office. For a startup that's always have to contend with finding space for their ever-growing teams, I can see why executives may reach for an understood solution to that problem, even knowing the downsides.

My guess is there's a necessary iteration to work environments in the future, since I don't think open offices truly optimize for knowledge workers. Presumably knowledge-based companies (e.g., tech) will eventually start thinking about how to optimize their internal efficiency as a lever to growth in addition to their product development.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#69

Post by SomeOldThrow »

diablerouge wrote: post #62

As someone who started out working in an open office and now works someplace with half-cubes, I honestly prefer the open office. The ability for an open office to foster pair-programming and intense collaboration was a real benefit, though it certainly doesn't suit everyone. On the other hand, the half-cubes have all the same problems with regard to distractions, but are also major hindrances to working together in m…

> The ability for an open office to foster pair-programming and intense collaboration was a real benefit, though it certainly doesn't suit everyone.

How much of your day do you spend in intense collaboration?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#70

Post by SkyPuncher »

I know this is an odd opinion, but I actually like open offices. It's akin to working in a coffee shop or public space.

I listen to music 90%+ time I'm working. I'm either using in-ear or closed-back headphones, so background noise isn't an issue. Having people milling around feels nice to me.

Post reply on HN