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The secret life of open source developers [video]

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Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#11

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

Those sort of emails are really hard to deal with, especially when it is something you spent a lot of time working on.

I like the idea from the talk of just blocking them outright.

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#12
There are many reasons why I use open source, but far and away one of the biggest reasons is simply the power it gives you as a user. I know it’s a cliche but if there's a problem you want fixed, you really can go and fix it, and everyone else benefits. Once you have a full community, this becomes extremely powerful.

The thing is, though, I really only work on things in a more selfish manner. For example, I’ve been contributing a bit to a very cool project called Kaitai Struct. But as cool as it is, I’m contributing for myself, on things I personally care about.

If you work at a company and you are bickering with open source maintainers, you’re really missing the point of open source. If it’s costing you money, then it was making you money. Give a tiny bit of effort back, and you benefit yourself and incidentally everyone else too. It’s a win-win, and you won’t get blocked on Twitter. If you/your company genuinely can’t spare the expense of spending a few engineer hours a week on FOSS, but also can’t afford to buy support contracts or pay for commercial software, that really seems like a problem, doesn’t it?

Disclaimer: I probably do not do enough open source work to really speak with authority. If you want to judge for yourself, I am jchv on Github.

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#13
post #2

Hmmmm I dunno... You make software available to other people, for free. But it's for them to use it (else, what's the point ?). So you're exposing yourself to users and users behave like users. It's not because you give away something for free that its value (and the way that value is recognized, for example, by being polite) is any different. The only thing you get by making it is the right, as a creator, to make it…

> it doesn't give you any power The mistake is thinking it's about power. It's about aligning goals. A lot of the individual motivation for OSS is about making the world (what the developer believes is) a better place. Things that contribute to that vision are welcome; things that distract from it are not. The first category includes detailed bug reports and feature requests consistent with the software's existing di…

not sure it is about aligning goals, It seems more like maximizing collaboration in spite of diverging goals, and doing so without compromising upon them.

If your goals, and their goals either conflict or do not intersect, either one or both compromise, or dont -- and can't... In theory neither holds any more power than the other. In practice and politics collaboration as a social activity is subject held beliefs by one or both parties which distort this aspect of equal power.

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#14
post #11

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

Those sort of emails are really hard to deal with, especially when it is something you spent a lot of time working on. I like the idea from the talk of just blocking them outright.

I learened not to engage. It only ever once turned out, that the user actually spent quite a bit of time and contributed something as a result of me engaging futher and not just ignoring the e-mail. I guess some people may just be grumpy for whatever reason, and it will bubble up in the conversation.

But I don't usually care for the positive words that much either. I guess it's nice that my sw is helping someone, and whatnot, and great, but it's usually just a preface to some request or issue someone's having, often times solvable by reading the man page, or using --help, or checking if there's a newer version and trying that before bothering the authors.

The only people that stand out are those that just send a thank you without anything else. Quite rare.

What'd probably be more interesting to receive is just a thank you note and some info about what the user is using the sw for. That might as well be inspirational, at the very least, and perhaps an opener for some collaboration. I think I received such a message 2-3x in the last 15 years. Very rare! Maybe people need a bit of probing in the README to send such messages. :D

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#15

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

I got a weird reverse one a few years back, to the effect of "your result is great, best I've seen, but the code is awful and I think you're not a good developer". What can you do? I just said something like "thanks, if you have any specific feedback please open an issue".

One thing that's nice about getting this via GitHub is, at least the rude comment maybe gets a couple of :thumbsdown:s on it, which can help you brush it off.

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#16

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

> So what to do with that?

Negative feedback is the only form of valueable feedback. If you want to make your software better you should listen to negative feedback. Of course negative feedback often comes with emotional baggage but you should be above that kind of thing. The right strategy is actually to ignore positive feedback (because it is mostly worthless) and ask the people that give you negative feedback for more specifics and to be more precise about what they don't like.

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#17
post #16

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

> So what to do with that? Negative feedback is the only form of valueable feedback. If you want to make your software better you should listen to negative feedback. Of course negative feedback often comes with emotional baggage but you should be above that kind of thing. The right strategy is actually to ignore positive feedback (because it is mostly worthless) and ask the people that give you negative feedback for…

No, being abused by someone is not valuable and even very mature, confident people find it hard to handle emotionally. Negative feedback is helpful if presented politely or neutrally. Otherwise the form destroys the value of the content. (And by the way, positive feedback can be very valuable as well.)

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#18
post #16

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

> So what to do with that? Negative feedback is the only form of valueable feedback. If you want to make your software better you should listen to negative feedback. Of course negative feedback often comes with emotional baggage but you should be above that kind of thing. The right strategy is actually to ignore positive feedback (because it is mostly worthless) and ask the people that give you negative feedback for…

Why does negative feedback come with an obligation to slave away for a person that doesn't even care about what you are doing?

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#19
post #15

I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.". So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude? It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people t…

I got a weird reverse one a few years back, to the effect of "your result is great, best I've seen, but the code is awful and I think you're not a good developer". What can you do? I just said something like "thanks, if you have any specific feedback please open an issue". One thing that's nice about getting this via GitHub is, at least the rude comment maybe gets a couple of :thumbsdown:s on it, which can help you b…

I used to really care about my own code quality in OSS but these days I just think it's a miracle if I manage to write any code (for the same reasons described in that video: full time job + family and other social obligations, eg I also do volunteer work most weekends).

The way I see it, writing working code is more important than writing "good" code most of the time. That's not to say I don't try and follow some degree of standards. My code usually contains a crap load of tests, definitely tries to follow the language idioms, etc. But I just don't try and get clever where I don't need to. Sometimes this means code isn't well optimised - however I can pick that up in a subsequent bug fix if that particular feature proves useful / popular.

Thus I have had one or two people comment before saying "it's not very well coded" and I usually just reply "it's very much living project where some code is working POC and other code has been rewritten and improved (sometimes many times over). However if you have any specific concerns or tips, I'd welcome them. Or better yet, chuck me a PR"

Re: The secret life of open source developers [video]

#20
post #3
post #2

Hmmmm I dunno... You make software available to other people, for free. But it's for them to use it (else, what's the point ?). So you're exposing yourself to users and users behave like users. It's not because you give away something for free that its value (and the way that value is recognized, for example, by being polite) is any different. The only thing you get by making it is the right, as a creator, to make it…

> But it's for them to use it (else, what's the point ?). The point is to have the software yourself. If it helps somebody else, all the better - but, like building a community, that's not necessarily the point.

That's probably the only really sustainable way to have open source without making it into somebody's job.

Make what you want or need for yourself, and share it with other people. But be under no obligation to place their needs over your own.

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