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WARP is here

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: WARP is here

#331

Post by [deleted] »

afiori wrote: post #325
sascha_sl wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8chan attracting such people despite being so small is the entire point and i can't believe i have to point that out they want those people there this is where they radicalize each other

https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-central... quote: There’s an unfortunate corollary to this, which is that if you try to create a libertarian paradise, you will attract three deeply virtuous people with a strong commitment to the principle of universal freedom, plus millions of scoundrels. Declare that you’re going to stop holding witch hunts, and your coalition is certain to include more than its…

[deleted]

Re: WARP is here

#332

Post by est »

kabacha wrote: post #317
est wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: > What WARP Is Not > From a technical perspective, WARP is a VPN. But it is designed for a very different audience than a traditional VPN. WARP is not designed to allow you to access geo-restricted content when you’re traveling. It will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit. If you’re looking for that kind of high-security protection then a traditional VPN or a service like Tor are likely better c…

Then what does it do? > WARP, instead, is built for the average consumer. It’s built to ensure that your data is secured while it’s in transit. So the networks between you and the applications you’re using can’t spy on you. Isn't that what ssl does already lol? What a load of sham.

> Then what does it do?

From my limited guess, you dial into Cloudflare's intranet, access CDN'd content inside a giant & very fast NAT.

Re: WARP is here

#333

Post by kelnos »

afiori wrote: post #320
laughinghan wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I have completely inverted ideas of what censorship is and why it is bad. Using legal tools would be horrific. Government censors deciding what material is too dangerous for the public is exactly one of the elements of fascism. Private entities on the open market exercising their right to not help promote ideas they object to is a good thing. It means that the more objectionable an idea is, the harder it is t…

the point is that in every jurisdiction in the world there are already laws to stop "encouraging mass murder to post their killing spree". Governments should not interfere in censoring lawful speech. Moreover an actual court of law ruling that 8chan was an illegal site would set a precedent for such thing happening. > They do have a responsibility not to enable bad people to do bad things, including not promoting ide…

> Governments should not interfere in censoring lawful speech.

What's "lawful speech" today may not be lawful tomorrow if we go down this path. I don't want governments deciding (except in very narrow circumstances) what people are and are not allowed to say.

I really like the parent's idea that a company deciding to not provide service to someone they find objectionable is just a business opportunity for someone else. If no one wants to take up that opportunity, then the public has spoken. It's not ideal, but it's way better than a government making that choice through threats of force.

Re: WARP is here

#334

Post by pnako »

nyolfen wrote: post #268
thenewnewguy wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that they are demonstrably not exactly what they claim to be, and thus some level of distrust is warranted. Where does Cloudflare claim to be content agnostic?

their ceo previously took a 'stand' before buckling

I have no reason to doubt that the CEO believes in free speech. Many people share this belief.

He did buckle, but we're only human. But did the pressure come from an angry mob on twitter, as most people assume, or from some guys wearing shades and an earpiece?

Re: WARP is here

#335

Post by tripzilch »

mwcampbell wrote: post #17

I was openly critical of Cloudflare when they announced Warp the first time. My accusations were over-reaching, and I ultimately retracted them. But I'm still skeptical, and I still won't use Warp. Here's what still bothers me: Cloudflare is a single company with points of presence all over the world, handling traffic for websites all over the world (including some big ones), and now trying to attract consumers world…

This is exactly my scepticism. Also, they always happen to be rooted in the US where my data has no rights and come with a general cultural lack of understanding of consumer protections.

This isn't power that good intentions are going to keep straight.

Re: WARP is here

#336

Post by tripzilch »

mwcampbell wrote: post #76
eastdakota wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early on in Cloudflare’s history when we were asked who our competition was we said Facebook. The concern was that the challenges of being online would get so hard that individual websites would give up and just move to run Facebook pages. We saw our role as providing the security and performance needed to compete without making you give in to use an all-consuming platform. We haven’t said that in a long time, but I…

Thank you for taking time to share your perspective. However, I remain skeptical. It's true that a website using Cloudflare is more independent than a Facebook page, in that in the former case, the company can take their domain to another provider. But my idea of an independent Web is a large number of websites depending on a large number of high-quality hosting providers. The latter number will inevitably be smaller…

> Are DDoS attacks and bots really that big of a problem?

They are to the kinds of websites that Cloudflare takes an active stance in deciding whether to serve/protect/censor or not.

Re: WARP is here

#337

Post by KeepingItToasty »

kabacha wrote: post #317
est wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: > What WARP Is Not > From a technical perspective, WARP is a VPN. But it is designed for a very different audience than a traditional VPN. WARP is not designed to allow you to access geo-restricted content when you’re traveling. It will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit. If you’re looking for that kind of high-security protection then a traditional VPN or a service like Tor are likely better c…

Then what does it do? > WARP, instead, is built for the average consumer. It’s built to ensure that your data is secured while it’s in transit. So the networks between you and the applications you’re using can’t spy on you. Isn't that what ssl does already lol? What a load of sham.

SSL/TLS encrypts your traffic between you and a server but by itself doesn't prevent your ISP from snooping some information about your encrypted connection. If you aren't using Secure DNS & DNSSEC, they may be able to see and intercept your DNS queries. If you don't use TLS 1.3, they can see the SSL certificate of the website you are connecting to. If you don't encrypt your Server Name Indication (SNI), they can see the hostname of the server you are connecting to.

This all allows your ISP to figure out which websites you are connecting to and this can be used to prevent you from accessing certain websites, sell your browsing history to an advertising agency, etc.

You can read more about it here: https://www.cloudflare.com/ssl/encrypted-sni/

P.S. I don't work for Cloudflare.

Re: WARP is here

#338

Post by afiori »

kelnos wrote: post #333
afiori wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is that in every jurisdiction in the world there are already laws to stop "encouraging mass murder to post their killing spree". Governments should not interfere in censoring lawful speech. Moreover an actual court of law ruling that 8chan was an illegal site would set a precedent for such thing happening. > They do have a responsibility not to enable bad people to do bad things, including not promoting ide…

> Governments should not interfere in censoring lawful speech. What's "lawful speech" today may not be lawful tomorrow if we go down this path. I don't want governments deciding (except in very narrow circumstances) what people are and are not allowed to say. I really like the parent's idea that a company deciding to not provide service to someone they find objectionable is just a business opportunity for someone els…

> What's "lawful speech" today may not be lawful tomorrow if we go down this path. I don't want governments deciding (except in very narrow circumstances) what people are and are not allowed to say.

Entirely agree and current laws already prohibit encouraging murder

> I really like the parent's idea that a company deciding to not provide service to someone they find objectionable is just a business opportunity for someone else.

Like it was in in the 20th century before civil right laws?

It is like saying that a monopoly is impossible because competitors can always emerge. It just does not work in practice.

Especially when the "competitor" become themselves target of a new witch hunt.

Re: WARP is here

#339

Post by afiori »

afiori wrote: post #325
sascha_sl wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8chan attracting such people despite being so small is the entire point and i can't believe i have to point that out they want those people there this is where they radicalize each other

https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-central... quote: There’s an unfortunate corollary to this, which is that if you try to create a libertarian paradise, you will attract three deeply virtuous people with a strong commitment to the principle of universal freedom, plus millions of scoundrels. Declare that you’re going to stop holding witch hunts, and your coalition is certain to include more than its…

As an addition, this is not meant to discourage you from taking this path.

Re: WARP is here

#340

Post by tripzilch »

elithrar wrote: post #129
mwcampbell wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can believe that Cloudflare's current leadership are currently more conscientious than, say, Comcast's. But, especially post-IPO, what is that actually worth? I think that, worldwide, it's likely that Cloudflare is already bigger than Comcast. So, unless I'm given evidence to the contrary, I think Comcast is the lesser evil.

I'm consistently amazed at how many people [on HN...] over-estimate the size/scale of Cloudflare. Comcast is a huge, multi-billion $ operation with global contracts and broadcasting capabilities, and > 184,000 employees globally (that's more than Google, and even MSFT). That's not to say that we shouldn't be wary of Cloudflare for many other reasons; but that they have more influence over the Internet than one of the…

You realize people are worried about more power being concentrated among less people, right?
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