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Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

forbes.com

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Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#141

Post by neotek »

wmp56 wrote: post #113
chx wrote: post #78

Cryptocurrencies are scam. End. This is very simple. Yes, they are a new kind of scam, a good name suggested is Nakamoto Scheme. https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ Also notable: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu... which doesn't outright call it a scam but certainly points out > Git gives you pretty much everything offered by the business case for blockchains. The one thing…

> Git was released in 2005, four years before Bitcoin Now I have a suspicion who was that mysterious Satoshi who had remarkably good industry-grade software skills.

This timeline is batshit insane enough without Satoshi Nakamoto turning out to be Linus Torvalds.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#142

Post by feanaro »

mosselman wrote: post #132
chrisco255 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forks aren't abandonment. And at this point, the market determines which chains are abandoned, it's not a single actor that has any sort of control.

That is like saying that there are no back doors in open source software because anyone can have a look at the source. 'The market' is a handful of powerful miners anyway. As if your 1 vote could do anything about some fork abandonment or whatever. Also, do you monitor the whole network constantly? You have to sleep at some point. You know who does constantly monitor the flow of currency to a somewhat trustworthy deg…

You don't have to monitor constantly, just some time after you make a transaction. Long chain reversals grow exponentially unlikely the longer the chain gets.

In practice, this does not seem like a large problem.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#143

Post by zaphirplane »

WA wrote: post #121
coralreef wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm going to challenge you to: - prevent or reverse any of my transactions - confiscate my bitcoin, or even find out how much I have You can't, and never will. Some cryptocurrencies are scams. But if you're saying all cryptocurrencies are scams, you're simply saying math and economics are a scam.

Calling them currrency is already a scam. They are not a currency. They are hardly money (look up the difference yourself), because you mostly can’t buy stuff with it. And for sure, you can’t pay taxes with them. I read a great question here on HN a while back to enthusiasts: If you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them? So many comments can be traced to the idea o…

> if you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them?

If I was the last person on earth, I wouldn’t care for gold, precious metals diamonds, stock, bonds, cash and a whole lot of other assets (+ other last person on earth issues)

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#144

Post by michalu »

me551ah wrote: post #117
chx wrote: post #78

Cryptocurrencies are scam. End. This is very simple. Yes, they are a new kind of scam, a good name suggested is Nakamoto Scheme. https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ Also notable: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu... which doesn't outright call it a scam but certainly points out > Git gives you pretty much everything offered by the business case for blockchains. The one thing…

Do Cryptocurrencies provide value and do something that country backed currencies can't? They do have their own advantages and disadvantages, but it purely boils down to how many people trade in it. Take gold for example, people believe that it has value and trade in it. The price of gold is decided on the basis of market forces of demand and supply. Similarly, a cryptocurrency's worth is decided by the demand for it…

It's funny to watch how these completely illogical arguments gain momentum in crypto community, I start to be suspicious that someone is pushing them on purpose to hype the herd.

Gold has superior chemical and physical features, quantum computers are built from gold. One third of the demand comes from jewellery which helps inflate the price, but even without that you hold some of industrial value, just the price would be 1/3 less.

No, cryptocurrencies are not a "commodity," "digital gold," "store of value" and they aren't valuable because "hey, dollar has no value." This is all nonsense.

When you have a humanitarian catastrophe or a conflict first thing enemy does is cut out the energy. Bitcoins are useless.

Physical gold can allow you to travel out with your family. Oil will have value, antibiotics, food, guns, jewellery like Rolex will have some value.

These are commodities.

Yesterday I had to wait one day for my transaction because my gas fee wasn't high enough. Lost 10% too. I get cross-border payments that are instant and without a fee and volatility.

While I see many interesting and even exciting use-cases for cryptocurrencies and even more for blockchain I'm not too bullish on the 'asset' part.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#145

Post by chrisco255 »

mosselman wrote: post #132
chrisco255 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forks aren't abandonment. And at this point, the market determines which chains are abandoned, it's not a single actor that has any sort of control.

That is like saying that there are no back doors in open source software because anyone can have a look at the source. 'The market' is a handful of powerful miners anyway. As if your 1 vote could do anything about some fork abandonment or whatever. Also, do you monitor the whole network constantly? You have to sleep at some point. You know who does constantly monitor the flow of currency to a somewhat trustworthy deg…

First of all, you seem to be addressing bitcoin in isolation and not crypto in general. What forces do you think make Bitcoin worth more than ETH or more than Bitcoin Cash? Market forces. Supply and demand. Just like all commodities. These are invisible hand forces that no single person controls at this point. Even if there are varying levels of centralization in the chains themselves, the market decides whether to back ETH or ETC or some mix of both. So, like any decentralized system, the network is monitored in a decentralized manner. The chains themselves have solved for consensus problems. That's the whole thing keeping blockchains going. No, banks don't constantly monitor everything (although admittedly, it's more than ever thanks to technology). Large amounts of cash still flow around the globe. And whether your government is trustworthy depends largely on which of the 195 nations you live in.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#146

Post by feanaro »

Svoka wrote: post #125
jjeaff wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Properly implemented "Laundering" services for crypto currency can make follow-the-money effectively useless. The funds are transferred to a wallet, they are mixed with many other coins, and then they are paid out in different sized transactions to the recipient. Assuming you have a busy enough pool, it should be technically untraceable.

Honestly, it seems like you’re trying to make it sound like a device one would use exclusively for scamming.

The poster was replying to a comment discussing traceability by the FBI so he can hardly be blamed for the topic.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#147

Post by feanaro »

linkregister wrote: post #96
coralreef wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm going to challenge you to: - prevent or reverse any of my transactions - confiscate my bitcoin, or even find out how much I have You can't, and never will. Some cryptocurrencies are scams. But if you're saying all cryptocurrencies are scams, you're simply saying math and economics are a scam.

- confiscate my bitcoin, or even find out how much I have Bitcoin's public ledger is especially vulnerable to FBI "follow the money" investigation. Only one end is required to be known, and the entire trail is easily followed. The federal agent who stole a portion of Dread Pirate Roberts' Bitcoin was quickly tracked and prosecuted.

Exchanging Bitcoin for Monero or Zcash, making a private transaction, then selling it back for Bitcoin under a separate account would seemingly stop this dead in its tracks.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#148

Post by Lucadg »

junipertea wrote: post #138
Lucadg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd keep in yourself a small amount of Bitcoin. You'd keep at home a bigger amount. You'd keep in a safe place the rest. Exactly as with cash.

You put cash in a bank.

You can put your seed words in a bank safety deposit box.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#149

Post by splintercell »

WA wrote: post #121
coralreef wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm going to challenge you to: - prevent or reverse any of my transactions - confiscate my bitcoin, or even find out how much I have You can't, and never will. Some cryptocurrencies are scams. But if you're saying all cryptocurrencies are scams, you're simply saying math and economics are a scam.

Calling them currrency is already a scam. They are not a currency. They are hardly money (look up the difference yourself), because you mostly can’t buy stuff with it. And for sure, you can’t pay taxes with them. I read a great question here on HN a while back to enthusiasts: If you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them? So many comments can be traced to the idea o…

> If you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them?

Are you being serious when you're asking that question? That question seems to be a product of an echo chamber.

Anyways to answer your question, yes, why wouldn't you still receive and endorse them? The idea behind cryptocurrencies is follows:

* Bitcoin is the cryptocurrency which is aimed to be the perfect store of value. Because it's fixed in supply and has the maximum network security, it serves as a backbone of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. Govts and pro-intervention economists don't like it, but Libertarians and (real) pro-free market economists love it. Even if you're the last person to receive bitcoin, it's still a better option because now you can save in a non-inflationary currency.

* Ethereum and other smart contract platforms allow creation of decentralized contracts between people, this facilitates creation of a system which isn't tied or dependant on the state to enforce it. Even if you're the last person to receive Ethers or Tezos or Cardano, etc, you're acquiring it in order to use the network. It's like asking would you like to be the last person to receive the arcade machine tokens.

Re: Kik, once valued at $1B, is to be closed

#150

Post by splintercell »

zaphirplane wrote: post #143
WA wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling them currrency is already a scam. They are not a currency. They are hardly money (look up the difference yourself), because you mostly can’t buy stuff with it. And for sure, you can’t pay taxes with them. I read a great question here on HN a while back to enthusiasts: If you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them? So many comments can be traced to the idea o…

> if you were the last person in earth to receive coins, would you still like them and endorse them? If I was the last person on earth, I wouldn’t care for gold, precious metals diamonds, stock, bonds, cash and a whole lot of other assets (+ other last person on earth issues)

You misunderstood the question. He said "last person on earth TO RECEIVE bitcoin", not "LAST PERSON on earth".
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