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Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

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Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#151

If any of y'all have questions about the process for getting a Tier-2 visa in the UK, I know waaaay more about that than I wish I did. (I'm an American living and paying income taxes in the UK as a software engineer. It is an option.)

Genuine question, what is the link between a tier-2 visa in the UK, and the subject of the story. Thanks.

GP is implying that us Americans all want to flee our country for his just for their "perfect" healthcare system.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#152

Insurance companies need to be expropriated. The entire thing needs a restructure from the ground up, there are too many critical path issues that will keep things expensive if we try to have two systems at once (medicare for all + private) the US should get real medicare, then move to a public/private system where you get base coverage through medicare and pay extra for fancy coverage.

Simply removing insurance and letting the free market adjust would fix the issue.

When I was a kid no one worried about hospital bankrupting the family. Now anything larger than a paper cut has the chance to bankrupt most families.

Combine that with the accident rate in cars you have an almost certain chance for a large percentage of the US to be bankrupt

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#153
Because medicine isn't paid for as a government-provided service. Insurance companies exist to profit - they defer risk. It is not a public service. I have a pre-existing condition, and I have a very mild case of Cystic Fibrosis: my healthcare at market costs about $500k a year. There's a lot of nuance to how much insurance companies actually pay out, etc, but looking at it in a simplified manner, it takes 25 families at $20k in premiums a year (with no claims to pay out) for them to break even on one of me.

tl;dr Health insurance is a for profit product, not a public service.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#154

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free.

That's weird because in every other OECD country that offers "free" healthcare (as in, single-payer or two-tier with national option) it's dramatically cheaper and has much better outcomes [1]. Reality doesn't line up with your pre-conceived notions.

[1] https://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/Health-at-a-Glance-2017-Ke...

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#155
post #125

Sharing this idea in order to gather critique. The cost of healthcare in the USA is insane. Could we look for insight into the US Military? Example: This morning, a coworker told me she's going to have an operation on her back. The "cost of the tray" (I have no idea what this is) is $14,000. She has to pay $8,000 up-front two days before the operation, and the remainder will be financed over two years. To me, it's in…

Oh I'm sure the military doesn't pay that much. They get to leverage staff doctors, and negotiated rates. You know like other countries with single payer systems, etc. get. People in the U.S. get screwed, because hospitals are businesses, and they know how much they can charge to make a profit. When a hospital has an entire legal arm just for suing people in court, because they aren't making their payments, you know…

isn't the problem actually that there is no limit on what they can charge? if i have an accident they won't ask me if i agree on the price, they just charge me while i'm unconscious. i don't get to negotiate prices and the ambulance will take me to the closest hospital, not the cheapest for me.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I manage a health plan for our smallish business of 19 employees. We offer "pretty good" health insurance, meaning, we pay around $600 per employee per month for health and dental. It gets worse every year. I am considering moving toward a HSA based plan, because upon analysis, it's actually probably better for everyone involved. The max out of pocket per year is the same, but instead of a $1000 deductible you have a…

From my perspective, I am unlikely to hit the out of pocket maximum but quite likely to spend more than $1k/year. All the high deductible does is discourage you from seeking care for things before they become serious. Not sure how it worked from the employer’s end, but $5k/year will get taxed at roughly 50% before I see it so it’s not clear whether that will be greater than my out of pocket costs

The missing link here is premium savings. HDHP plans exchange higher deductibles for a nontrivial premium discount. Insurance companies like to assure employers that employees will bank this discount into a tax-advantaged HSA. So the theory goes, a reasonably healthy subscriber will have sufficient savings to meet their deductible.

This falls apart in practice when employees, who are already spread thin financially, elect an HDHP but can't or won't set aside cash to cover expenses.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#157
post #131

Is it possible for an American to move to Switzerland?

No, Americans have a long and deeply embedded tap root so they die if they are pulled up.

Nope, sorry, I'm thinking of turnips. Easy mistake.

Yes you can move I guess.

Alternatively perhaps you can give some aggro to your representative and make a public noise so this horrible system you appear to have gets fixed. Bonus: you get to stay in your own country and make things better for everyone else there as well.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#158
post #148

The problem is that there is not a single reason that healthcare is so expensive. Even if you list the top 15 reasons, you still have to apply the "5 whys" to each of them to find root causes and possible solutions. - Doctor's are paid too much... why? - Well they need to be paid a lot because medical school debt is 250k or more... why? - Medical schools/the AMA are artificially limiting the number of students and re…

> so they need to charge a lot... why? - I honestly don't know.

Does anybody else know the answer to this?

> Doctor's are paid too much... why?

Are US doctors paid too much when compared to say... Japanese doctors? European doctors?

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#159
It seems like a strange omission for this article not to mention that the reason health insurance is so expensive in the US is that health expenditures are so high. The US spends more than $10,000 per year per person on health care[1], more than any other country. Clearly, on average, premiums clearly must be higher than the amount paid out on behalf of the customer.

If you want lower premiums, you somehow need to lower the amount spent on health care. The problem is that, perversely, health insurance companies are incentivized to spend more on health care rather than less. By law, they must spend at least 80% of the money collected as premiums on health care costs[2]. The more they pay, the larger the 20% they are allowed to keep.

So if you want to reduce the cost of health insurance in the US, you need to reduce the cost of health care. If you want to reduce the cost of health care, you somehow need to change the incentives so that the big players benefit when the cost of health care goes down rather than up. Failing that, you need to change the system so those big players are no longer in control.

[1] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...

[2] https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/rate-...

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#160

This is why I feel the "most Americans like their health insurance" cliche is complete garbage.

I loved my health insurance before Obamacare. I had a nice catastrophic coverage plan that was perfect for me. Now those are illegal.

Same here. Obamacare made my insurance SO much worse, and so much more expensive.
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