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Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

axios.com

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Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#91

Post by triceratops »

throwaway_law wrote: post #43
lotsofpulp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with what tempsy wrote?

The articles is about employer health plans getting more expensive, the comment was about employer health plans getting more expensive...whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan? An individual private plan, I thought it seemed relevant those are increasing in cost too (at a much higher rate).

> whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan?

There are a number of alternatives:

1. Government health plan at the state level (i.e. the Canada model)

2. Compulsory private insurance (i.e. the Switzerland model). But employers don't provide it and insurers have to insure everyone who pays. Single, larger, and more diverse risk pool instead of 3 separate pools - one with working age people and children, one with old people, one with everyone else

3. Government-owned and -operated hospitals and clinics, free at the point of use (i.e. the UK model)

4. Government health plan at the federal level (i.e. the France model)

All four have been found to cost less per patient for similar or better outcomes.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#92

Post by xphilter »

If you want to blame anyone, blame the RAND institute with poor studies that pump up the hype around high-deductible plans: https://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR562z4/analysis...

My last reading of their work was years ago, but at the time the study found that folks will use fewer health resources when on a high deductible plan. However--the study allowed folks to revert to their old insurance (i.e., lower cost insurance) if they got sick. Meaning the study would show those in high-deductible plan would use fewer resources only because the people in that plan who used more resources quit the study.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#94

Post by throwaway66920 »

2sk21 wrote: post #83
throwaway66920 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting insurance as an individual is expensive because you’re not part of a group plan. With a group plan the insurance company has some reason to believe you’re not collectively a bunch of dying people committing moral hazard, you’re just one of a generally similar looking company workforce. If employers stopped providing it, I think it is presumed that the mentality towards individual plans would change

Well, one way of looking at it is that the general population is the biggest group possible :-)

Sort of. This is true if everyone is required to participate in the system. And there’s only one provider. If you imagine there being a cheap plan and an expensive plan, you would probably expect that the expensive plan is a way better return on the dollar because there are fewer poor people on it weighing it down (because poor people are likely to have more health issues).

True meaning it averages out to a reasonably healthy person

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#95

Post by Ididntdothis »

pg_bot wrote: post #52
Ididntdothis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only profit. They also cause a lot of administrative overhead. For example if doctors had to deal only with one insurer or at least one coding system they wouldn’t need four billing assistants as I have seen. In essence insurance companies do a lot of unnecessary stuff. Their profit is only a small part of that cost.

There are two coding systems (ICD - for diseases, and CPT for procedures) that are mandated to use by medicare/medicaid and all the insurance companies use them as well. Most of them even accept the same forms. They need those billing assistants for other reasons.

”They need those billing assistants for other reasons.”

Whatever it is they do exactly it deals with insurance companies. Germany also has private doctors but they have much smaller staff and dealings with insurance are very straightforward. American insurance companies cause a lot of friction. I don’t know exactly why but they do.

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#97

Post by Ididntdothis »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
lotsofpulp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the administrative stuff insurers do to prevent healthcare providers from doing unnecessary stuff. In a taxpayer funded system, there would still have to be an entity to double check healthcare providers’ billing.

Such an entity already exists. They're substantially more efficient at it. https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20110920.01339... > According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, administrative costs in Medicare are only about 2 percent of operating expenditures. Defenders of the insurance industry estimate administrative costs as 17 percent of revenue.

That’s government. We all know that private companies are always more efficient. Right?

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#98

Post by kerkeslager »

rukittenme wrote: post #58
taurath wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay execs $100mm a year and have that not be profit. This is why they lobby so hard.

Yes because shareholders love paying executives tons of money so they don't have to collect it themselves... /s

We don't need to argue what hypothetical shareholders would do, we have hard facts that health insurance CEOs are getting paid billions, and receiving yearly pay increases that outpace most Americans[1].

[1] https://www.axios.com/the-sky-high-pay-of-health-care-ceos-1...

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#99

Post by southphillyman »

KoftaBob wrote: post #12

This is why I feel the "most Americans like their health insurance" cliche is complete garbage.

That statement was a stumbling block in one of the recent Democratic debates. I have no idea why none of the candidates drive the point that insurance != doctor home(in most cases) .

Re: Employer health plans are getting pricier and skimpier

#100

Post by reroute1 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #60
mywittyname wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a critical mass of uninsured people is the foundation we need to resolve the healthcare crisis in America. Those uninsured people still need healthcare. If enough people start calling up small clinics asking for pricing, a cottage industry of small health providers will pop up to service these people with transparent pricing. The insurance industry has perverted our healthcare system. The major reason doctors…

> People should pay for their healthcare directly, and the government should provide for those who require serious, expensive treatments (after a payment that is some percentage of their income). It's cheaper for the government to pay for everything. If you incentivize skipping check-ups and minor treatments they turn into large expensive care. The rest of the western world has had universal health care for ~50 years…

> The US should just choose a country and copy it.

Just because X policy works elsewhere doesn't mean it would have the same effect in another country.

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