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Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

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Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#121

Post by rurp »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #69
ceejayoz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/health/juul-teens-vaping.... > In April 2017, a Juul representative visited the Dwight School in New York City to meet with students — with no teachers present — and told them the company’s e-cigarettes were “totally safe.” > Other schools across the country were offered $10,000 from the e-cigarette company for the right to talk to students in classrooms or after school. > In Richmo…

Given the way teenagers don’t really fawn over authority figures, this seems like the most counterproductive thing they could have done. Stupid.

An adult saying, "Hey guys, try this cool, totally safe, vaping product!", doesn't exactly sound like the typical authority figure that a teenager rebels against.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#122

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #92
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #35

They reached out to me on LinkedIn. Don't know why they need software engineers, but I don't think I'm aligned with their mission -- whatever it may be.

Who cares if you're "aligned with a mission"? It's a paycheck.

Because this industry is competitive with many employers, I have the luxury of (somewhat) prioritizing my personal values w.r.t my work. Not everyone has that.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#123

Post by throwaway2048 »

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #92
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #35

They reached out to me on LinkedIn. Don't know why they need software engineers, but I don't think I'm aligned with their mission -- whatever it may be.

Who cares if you're "aligned with a mission"? It's a paycheck.

I think a job at the baby grinding plant has opened up, pay starts at around 500k USD/y you interested?

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#124

Post by intuitionist »

dntrkv wrote: post #31
34679 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next up: regulatory capture. Vaping right now is super cheap because of all the options from different companies. So what's a multibillion dollar international conglomerate to do? Well, make the little guys go away with onerous regulations, of course. It's the American Way™.

A Juul habit is not super cheap, it’s more expensive than an equivalent cigarette habit, by far.

Depends a lot on the tax situation where you live.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#125

Post by ceejayoz »

decebalus1 wrote: post #113
ceejayoz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's not killing people, how is it a health crisis? I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. There are also indications that the uptick in vaping has stalled the decline in cigarette smoking. https://www.concordmonitor.com/Youth-smoking-decline-stalls-...

> I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. So we can't say if it's a health crisis.. yet. Right? We also don't know of the long-term impact of melatonin but we're not considering people consuming it when they have insomnia to be a health crisis, right?

We've got evidence it's negatively affecting the known health crisis of cigarette smoking.

I'm inclined to treat non-addictive melatonin and extremely-addictive nicotine differently in how we approach potential health risks.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#126

Post by basch »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55
bredren wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From previous discussions here, I took that Juul juice is formulated differently than other vaping juices, with a much higher nicotine amount. I agree vaping can help stop cigarette use, but I am not sure they are all equally good at this.

As an ex smoker and now ex vaper, who wouldn't have quit cigs without vaping, Juul definitely feels to be something apart. Part of the problem, not the solution. Their USP seems to be delivering a much higher "hit" more quickly, trying to give a hit like your first ever cigarette. Never tried one and don't intend to so have no clue how true this is, but it was definitely part of the buzz around them.

juul is a nicotine salt instead of freebase nicotine, making it unique among market offerings.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#127

Post by cwkoss »

stronglikedan wrote: post #63
bhouston wrote: post #51

Smokers switching to ecigs is a good thing. Significantly proved health outcomes. But kids adopting flavored ecigs and beginning smoking is horrible. So we need to limit ecigs to the first use case and minimize the second otherwise ecigs/vaping could be an overall net negative. So I do strongly favor no advertising at all and no flavors or colors except mentol or something else which appeals to existing smokers.

Fruity flavors were a life-saver for me, because it allowed me to distance myself from tobacco flavor so much, that it made me nauseous when I would try to smoke a real cigarette again. It just so happens that the "something else which appeals to existing smokers", e.g., fruity flavors, may also be appealing to non-smokers. However, I don't see that as a strong enough argument to ban them.

My concern with 'fruity flavors' is the molecular diversity. Many of these compounds are considered safe for human consumption (edible) but under-researched when vaporized an inhaled, which has the potential for formation of novel unexpected compounds, especially in heterogenous solutions.

I think the risk from these compounds is likely an order of magnitude less than the risks of cigarette smoking, and these risks will decrease as we get more data on longer-term use for these compounds.

I read one study that found benzene formation in vapor from higher-watt devices, but not in lower ones. I think using minimum necessary power is a good harm mitigation measure until more data comes in, that would likely help with flavors as well.

Seems like stringent labeling requirements for vape juice would be a cheap win for regulators and consumers. Give us an MSDS with the exact constituents.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#128

Post by cwkoss »

Barrin92 wrote: post #102
hawkedit wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you feel that restricting all flavoring in e-cig juice would be a good thing. You do realize that would just push things underground and out of a somewhat regulated market even more... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make their own flavored juice at home after ordering the supplies... Not to mention the disrupt that would have on local business with the tens of thousands of vape shops that have…

here in Germany distilling your own spirits is illegal (I think there's an exception for very small personal amounts), and yet I don't think I've ever seen some sort of early 20th century moonshine market. I've seen these arguments about enforcement frequently but we're talking about modern governments here. If Uncle Sam wants to stop flavoured smoking they will be successful. They can go after online platforms that…

Check out "Air stills". Distilling your own alcohol is illegal (in US), but it's now about as easy as operating a coffee maker.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#129

Post by cwkoss »

34679 wrote: post #43
dntrkv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Juul habit is not super cheap, it’s more expensive than an equivalent cigarette habit, by far.

JUUL's competition is super cheap. Which is why JUUL/Phillip Morris will lobby to have most of them regulated out of existence. You can get a bottle of the same strength juice that's in a JUUL pod for the same price as a pack of pods. But the bottle has 30mL and the pack has 2mL.

I'm someone who vapes, and I wouldn't mind more regulation on juices. Nicotine is a very potent chemical, and concentrated solutions are effectively potent poison. A swig from one of these bottles could easily kill you.

At minimum, I believe there should be labeling and quality controls standards, and child-safety caps. A concentration limit may be sensible as well.

Re: Juul Labs CEO to Step Down

#130

Post by UncleMeat »

zosterops wrote: post #104
vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two vaping crises. One is THC vaping solutions that are killing people. The second is that we're currently living through a meteoric rise in nicotine addiction among teenagers. For a very long time, teenage nicotine use was going down, due to declines in smoking rates. Smoking rates still continue to decline, but nicotine vaping rates have gone up and to the right. 1 in 4 high school students are now vaping n…

Is caffeine addiction a serious public health crisis? Nictoine on its own is no more harmful than caffeine. https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-worse-than-cup-of-cof...

I'd be concerned about high schoolers addicted to caffeine.
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