The Highest Suicide Rate in the World • Hacker News Board

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#121

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

leesec wrote: post #32

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great link. This is the interactive graphic that should have appeared with the article. Instead of a single narrative, users can explore various scenarios as they read along. Looking at this strictly from a geographic standpoint, for instance, there's something weird going on in North Dakota between Carson County and Sioux County. It really stands out on the map. Alaska also looks quite odd.

"something weird" being the native american population, who have been getting trampled on by Americans for hundreds of years now.

It wouldn't explain why places that haven't been trampled on by Americans would have high suicide rates. South Korea and Japan both have pretty high suicide rates for example.

Also, a large chunk of the suicides are young people who didn't leave through the eras where oppression occurred. I am not sure why somebody would commit suicide because something happened to their ancestors.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#122

Post by fwip » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #113

heymijo wrote: post #35

If the commonality is that living in these higher latitude zones causes increases in suicide, what happens when/if the Earth hits +4C and the habitable zones become these very same areas? [see map linked below] There would be obvious confounders, like the despair of knowing that humans decimated the planet's habitability. https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/climat...

If people really believe +4C is likely in 80 years, why aren’t they out marching and demanding a move to nuclear power? It’s the only option that doesn’t decimate the poor and drastically increase the price of food, and this magnitudes more likely to be acted upon. Yet the overlap between people against nuclear power and terrified of climate change is a massive majority.

Not everybody is looking at the same statistics you are, and not everyone is as hopeful about our ability to store nuclear waste safely indefinitely.

I'm pro-nuclear power, but it's foolish to act like their motivations or beliefs are less real than yours because they have a different risk assessment.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#123

Post by jolotriage » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #112

ianleeclark wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s the lazy “blame the violent colonialists” approach though. Crazy to think that hundreds of years of violence and extraction had nothing to do with this, and it's just due to cultural faults. There's no world in which their legacy of oppression wouldn't affect their present day material conditions. > Modern technology coming around and wiping out the need for most of your tribe to hunt and gather is going to…

It's certainly not impossible that we've blinded ourselves to other problems by being so quick to blame all of their woes on colonialism however. The real world is rarely so simple. I find it a bit condescending when we try to pin all of the blame on western influence in the past, when these people are quite capable of fucking up their own lives without your help thank you very much. The idea that the old hunter-gath…

Loss of sense of history/direction with a tremendous wealth/income disparity leads to this type of disillusionment imo.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#124

Post by dhhdhdsbdb » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #112

ianleeclark wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s the lazy “blame the violent colonialists” approach though. Crazy to think that hundreds of years of violence and extraction had nothing to do with this, and it's just due to cultural faults. There's no world in which their legacy of oppression wouldn't affect their present day material conditions. > Modern technology coming around and wiping out the need for most of your tribe to hunt and gather is going to…

It's certainly not impossible that we've blinded ourselves to other problems by being so quick to blame all of their woes on colonialism however. The real world is rarely so simple. I find it a bit condescending when we try to pin all of the blame on western influence in the past, when these people are quite capable of fucking up their own lives without your help thank you very much. The idea that the old hunter-gath…

The amazing book 1491 calls this Holmbergs mistake: that the indigenous people lined in a static world and didn't have the agency to make their own mistakes.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#125

Post by dyadic » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #113

heymijo wrote: post #35

If the commonality is that living in these higher latitude zones causes increases in suicide, what happens when/if the Earth hits +4C and the habitable zones become these very same areas? [see map linked below] There would be obvious confounders, like the despair of knowing that humans decimated the planet's habitability. https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/climat...

If people really believe +4C is likely in 80 years, why aren’t they out marching and demanding a move to nuclear power? It’s the only option that doesn’t decimate the poor and drastically increase the price of food, and this magnitudes more likely to be acted upon. Yet the overlap between people against nuclear power and terrified of climate change is a massive majority.

People are out demanding changes.

I'm terrified of climate change. I'm also terrified of nuclear power. I'm not really against nuclear power in theory, but I'm afraid about how we're unable to think about, plan, or prepare for longer than an election cycle. If we're heading for a collapse then a lot of abandoned nuclear power plants are going to cause a lot of damage.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#126

Post by olleromam91 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #21

endorphone wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar groups in various other arctic locations throughout the globe have abuse and suicide rates that are only marginally lower. Further the greatest number of victims are youth. Living like it's the 1700s only works if you aren't aware that the rest of the world exists. Put youth in very remote locations and teach them that maintaining a lost culture is their most important reason for existing -- but they're aware…

> Living like it's the 1700s only works if you aren't aware that the rest of the world exists. Put youth in very remote locations and teach them that maintaining a lost culture is their most important reason for existing -- but they're aware of a wide world that will embrace them [^1] yet they're told that it reviles them -- and it has to be pretty self-defeating. Add horrendous weather most of the year, harsh condit…

From the comment you seek to demote:

>The outside people who express the most interest in your welfare seem bent on curating you like an artifact.

I think you might have let your bias alter your reception of their comment.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#127

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #105

kevadk wrote: post #13

For comparison, here are a few of the highest rates per 100k in the US: 98.7 - Kusilvak Census Area, AK; 75.1 - Nome Census Area, AK; 64.2 - Sioux County, ND; 58.9 - Buffalo County, SD; 49.3 - Carbon County, UT https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa Extend the list and you see lots of high latitudes, low incomes, remote rural settings, and indigenous American populations (e.g. Yupik and Inupiaq in Alaska, Siou…

You are likely to find the highest suicide rates in less-populated areas because the average of fewer numbers tends to have a greater variance than the average of more numbers. The suicide rate could be the same everywhere and you would still be guaranteed to find the most suicides in rural counties.

[deleted]

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#128

Post by Mirioron » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #54

japhyr wrote: post #45

The history of alcoholism and suicide in Alaska goes back to the time of first contact with outsiders. When westerners first contacted Alaska Native tribes, those "explorers" tended to be people who were after valuable furs, and missionaries. These people were usually a mix of Russians from the west and Americans from the south. The outsiders brought with them diseases like tuberculosis and influenza, and these disea…

That’s the lazy “blame the violent colonialists” approach though. There’s a very high suicide rate amongst Greenland natives as well. Perhaps it’s because so much culture was surrounded around food gathering? Modern technology coming around and wiping out the need for most of your tribe to hunt and gather is going to have a big impact on cultures like that.

>Perhaps it’s because so much culture was surrounded around food gathering? Modern technology coming around and wiping out the need for most of your tribe to hunt and gather is going to have a big impact on cultures like that.

I think this is actually an interesting point. One I hadn't considered before. I doubt it really explains it, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was a contributing factor.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#129

Post by Smithalicious » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

athesyn wrote: post #30

cf141q5325 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol loosens your inhibitions and pushes you deeper into the abyss. While you wouldnt have killed yourself sober, the answer might look different after a few bottles. Its the same reason firearms have an influence on the suicide rate. Pulling a trigger is just a lot less of a hurdle then most other methods.

This makes me wonder what the actual rate of suicides are performed under influence compared to completely sober. I have a feeling the latter is extremely rare.

The percentage of suicides performed under the influence seems to be about 30%[0], so a minority of suicides, but still a sizeable number.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/health/19suicide.html

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#130

Post by jhayward » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #113

heymijo wrote: post #35

If the commonality is that living in these higher latitude zones causes increases in suicide, what happens when/if the Earth hits +4C and the habitable zones become these very same areas? [see map linked below] There would be obvious confounders, like the despair of knowing that humans decimated the planet's habitability. https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/climat...

If people really believe +4C is likely in 80 years, why aren’t they out marching and demanding a move to nuclear power? It’s the only option that doesn’t decimate the poor and drastically increase the price of food, and this magnitudes more likely to be acted upon. Yet the overlap between people against nuclear power and terrified of climate change is a massive majority.

> it's the only option that doesn’t decimate the poor and drastically increase the price of food

This is an unsupportable assertion. Nuclear power costs far more than the alternatives (mainly Wind/Solar), none of which impoverish people nor drastically increase the price of food.