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WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

mattstoller.substack.com

21–30 of 440 posts

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#21
post #4

> owns buildings personally he leases to WeWork This part bugs me. This is standard procedure for small businesses, having a real-estate business leasing property to your main business. If you want to succeed, you own the building. Otherwise, you are on borrowed time. Edit: alright, great points, thanks!

Yeah sure, when you're a 2 persons business making home made shoes in a garage. Not when you're a multi millionaire basically paying your _personal_ real estate loans through investors money. That's an obvious conflict of interests, I don't even know how these kind of companies are allowed to be honest.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defending those of poor character and moral fiber (not my judgement, facts reported) from a jab about their clothes is low priority. The other issues presented are far more pressing.

I personally think it's good to call out arguments that we disagree with, that are imprecise, or irrelevant. Not as pressing in this case but elsewhere if you leave those arguments uncriticized it gives those you are arguing against more leverage in the form of things they can point out. It's important we hold people to high standards

What if its totally irrelevant to the larger issue and the nitpicking of minor parts of an article are just used to distract and diffuse any conversation actual issues?

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#23
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defending those of poor character and moral fiber (not my judgement, facts reported) from a jab about their clothes is low priority. The other issues presented are far more pressing.

Taking a jab at clothing generally is so low effort to be actually embarrassing and will invalidate anything else that you are trying to say. IMO.

What is more embarrassing is picking one statement in huge article and getting hung up on it? As a writer certain things make stylistically sense perhaps only to the author, but that is one substantive article about the state of Capital markets and "Captains" of New Industry.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#24
The whole thing about subprime mortgages and how jp was slow to get in isn't entirely accurate. I mean I guess it could have been the actual reason since there's always a disconnect between management and the ones actually doing the work, but the structured credit team at jp Morgan was acutely aware at the time how the whole cdo business was going out of control. This was because they were also the team who invented the cds and knew the whole cdo business made 0 sense and active chose to refrain. It's documented very well in the book "fools gold" which is a pretty good read.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#25
post #19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making pointless jabs at somebody dilutes your argument and makes you look like a moron in the eyes of bystanders on the margins of deciding who's right.

If those are still "on the margins of deciding who's right" on such a clear cut case, then they're a lost cause anyway...

So you don't care about convincing people, that's fine, but just realize that you're doing your own causes no favors by not caring about how you make your arguments.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#26

Some of these criticisms are just irrelevant personal abuse - like saying he doesn't think Neumann's t-shirt is fitted well.

Defending those of poor character and moral fiber (not my judgement, facts reported) from a jab about their clothes is low priority. The other issues presented are far more pressing.

You presume to tell others how to arrange their priorities? Very well. I will say that you are wrong. It is a fine priority to defend people from unfair jabs and accusations. These attacks damage the quality of our public discourse, which is in bad enough shape already.

You will find no shortage of fair jabs and meaningful accusations to be aired in the matter of WeWork. They are scathing enough on their own. Random sniping about T-shirt quality detracts from the points that matter.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#27

"The company is losing an enormous amount of money and 'has no path to profitability at scale'." - well if there is no path to profitability, how is it still worth 10-15 billion ? "If you know Dimon’s actual reputation, him getting suckered isn’t surprising. From what I heard back in 2009, Dimon is a mediocrity who essentially got lucky his bank was too slow to get in on the subprime scam in 2006; he then used his ba…

> And then whole blurb on Counterfeit Capitalism - which in essence described capitalism

This is my favorite thing. Whenever someone describes something like "Counterfeit Capitalism" or "Crony Capitalism", it's always just describing capitalism.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#28
I think there's a space for a one-stop business services company. Office space with utilities, with the definition of utilities expanded to include Internet access, catering, software licenses, shared IT staff, and such does make sense. I also think, though, it's a new tweak on the office real estate business and not a groundbreaking tech business that needs to be valued the way a tech company would be.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#29
While the writer is a irritating in how he presents info, he does have good points. WeWork never looked like a real business to me, I thought the IPO as presented was such a great work of fiction. In the end the "business" is renting office space. It's not worth any more than that. At least Uber and Lyft provide something new (calling taxis from phones, I guess you could think of that as not terribly new) but it did change how people travel in cities. WeWork is basically shared office space but the business is mostly the founders scamming money out of investors.

Re: WeWork and Counterfeit Capitalism

#30
This doesn't excuse WeWork being excessively unprofitable but low or negative returns don't directly imply anything "Counterfeit".

I like to point out that low or negative real returns on stores of value have historically been the norm. Before financial systems existed, almost all investment had negative returns if you didn’t put work and energy into them. To store value, you had to accumulate stuff, buildings or land. Most options either had high maintenance costs, were subject to risk of damage from natural causes and theft, were very volatile or required hard labor to get production out of.

Even more recently, it has often been difficult to get low risk, hassle free, liquid, positive real returns. From a basic science perspective this seems to reflect the laws of thermodynamics that tell us that everything tends to decay without a constant supply of work and energy. In general, most things require maintenance to keep their worth.

The 20th century may have been an outlier. Because of unprecedented demographic and technological growth, positive risk free real returns on liquid assets were easy to find. It is possible that under favorable conditions, wealth can have positive returns and even compound into very good long run returns but it is not a guarantee and there is nothing natural about it. It may not continue forever, particularly amidst an aging and retiring population in a world no longer as rich in easy to exploit natural resources.

While people are used to get negative returns on very short term purchases, you buy fresh vegetables at the supermarket even if they degrade over time, they can’t seem to accept the normalcy of negative returns on longer term assets despite the tendencies inherent in the laws of physics. In nature, squirrels’ nut caches have a certain percentage of losses from theft and spoilage. Returns tending towards the negative are natural even if they can seem unusual for people just out of the 20th century.

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