The Highest Suicide Rate in the World • Hacker News Board

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#81

Post by _edo » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

> Nunavut’s rate is 100 per 100,000, ten times higher than the rest of Canada and seven times higher than the US.

Ok, that's bad.

But we can connect that to the US: white males with no college, aged 45-54, have a suicide rate of 38.8 and a poisoning (overdose) rate of 58.0[0]. Put those together and that's pushing 100 per 100,000. That's enough to start asking some cultural questions.

However, "During 1999–2003, the suicide rate among Nunavut males aged 15 to 19 was estimated to exceed 800 per 100,000 population, compared to around 14 for the general Canadian male population in that age group."[1]

800 per 100,000? This statistic is staggering for a couple of reasons: its magnitude and the age range.

The graphs in [3] show just how young and male the suicides among the Inuit are. It's no surprise that it's primarily male, because it almost always is, but it is surprising to see an 8:1 ratio and that it's affecting the youth so heavily. For comparison, in the United States the 15-24 age range is near the bottom of the suicide statistics[4].

These are boys born in the 1980's. As bad as the crimes against the Inuits may have been in the 1950's it's a strange territory to wander into where an effect of an atrocity shows up 50 years late in a population that wasn't alive yet. From wikipedia[2]: "...to about 170 in 2002. Some of the reasons given include adverse childhood experiences involving emotional neglect and abuse, family violence and substance abuse, as well as social inequalities brought on by government intervention." (referencing [3]) I can see the argument the author is making here but I don't have the time to address it.

The article is giving the "white guilt" narrative and for whatever reason is dancing around the massive gender disparity in suicide rates. When I see articles like this I wonder how much the author cares about suicide and how much they see it as a platform to write about anti-colonialism.

[0] - Table 1 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/49/15078 [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Canada [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Canada#Among_the_In... [3] - https://www.iwgia.org/images/publications//IA_4_07.pdf#page=... [4] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crude_US_suicide_rate_by_...

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#82

Post by dagw » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

spinach wrote: post #60

CarlosCabrito wrote: post #37

Based on my anecdotal evidence, the major factors that seems to affect regions with high suicide rates are: - Isolation/ lack of community connection: Isolated individuals tend to have less social feedback loops, which impacts their perception of the world around them. - Alcohol and Drug abuse: This can be a byproduct of other areas, as an attempt to help alleviate the perceived suffering, boredom, etc. In my opinion…

But going by the article, "suicide was rare, and among young people, almost unknown" until contact with outsiders. So I don't think it's just isolation.

Isolation on the individual level. Contact with outsiders could have led to previously close knit communities breaking down and other social ties weakening, even if there where more actual people around.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#83

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

slothtrop wrote: post #52

japhyr wrote: post #45

The history of alcoholism and suicide in Alaska goes back to the time of first contact with outsiders. When westerners first contacted Alaska Native tribes, those "explorers" tended to be people who were after valuable furs, and missionaries. These people were usually a mix of Russians from the west and Americans from the south. The outsiders brought with them diseases like tuberculosis and influenza, and these disea…

> But this is the root of alcoholism and suicide in Alaska More accurately, conditions today ripe for alcoholism and suicide may be borne out events following contact. There's similar issues in Canada, Siberia.

Is the problem of alcoholism worse in Siberia than it is in the rest of Russia, where it is already pretty bad?

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#84

Post by luckydata » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

p1esk wrote: post #62

CarlosCabrito wrote: post #37

Based on my anecdotal evidence, the major factors that seems to affect regions with high suicide rates are: - Isolation/ lack of community connection: Isolated individuals tend to have less social feedback loops, which impacts their perception of the world around them. - Alcohol and Drug abuse: This can be a byproduct of other areas, as an attempt to help alleviate the perceived suffering, boredom, etc. In my opinion…

This doesn’t explain Lithuania which is not isolated, has no alcohol/drug problem, and has enough sun.

because he's missing "lack of hope for the future" which is a key component. That's usually tied to economics.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#85

Post by dagw » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

p1esk wrote: post #62

CarlosCabrito wrote: post #37

Based on my anecdotal evidence, the major factors that seems to affect regions with high suicide rates are: - Isolation/ lack of community connection: Isolated individuals tend to have less social feedback loops, which impacts their perception of the world around them. - Alcohol and Drug abuse: This can be a byproduct of other areas, as an attempt to help alleviate the perceived suffering, boredom, etc. In my opinion…

This doesn’t explain Lithuania which is not isolated, has no alcohol/drug problem, and has enough sun.

Isolated in this case isn't necessarily talking about geographic isolation, but the social isolation individuals experience. And when it comes to alcohol, I don't know enough about the country to say whether it has a "problem" or not, but it is consistently listed among the top 3 countries by alcohol consumption.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#86

Post by luckydata » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

aivisol wrote: post #57

dagw wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Lithuania has he same problem as all the Nordics, dark gloomy weather year round. Except the Nordic countries have a lower suicide rates than the US. The whole high rates of suicide in the Nordics is a myth.

True, however if you look in the European context, Southern countries have lower rates despite having lower standard of living. So the climate cannot be completely ruled out, it is perhaps one of the factors.

lower standards only applies if you think about money. In every other respect, life is more pleasant in the mediterranean than in nordic countries. Source: I'm from the mediterranean and I think life in California is shit, even if I make way more money than before.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#87

Post by goodcanadian » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #24

daliusd wrote: post #9

Wondered if Lithuania will be mentioned in the article. Yes, it is. The difference between Nanuvat and Greenland is that their populations are 10 thousands, we are almost 3 million.

I guess Lithuania has he same problem as all the Nordics, dark gloomy weather year round. I wanted to emigrate to Sweden due to the high quality of life but the dark, drizzly, windy weather really put me off and some locals I talked to said they were really depressed by it and were either trying to emigrate or work remotely from Southern Europe. In the Blatics it's probably worse as the economic situational is not po…

I always find the linking of climate and weather to depression strange. I grew up in a place with quite dark winters. While I know seasonal affective disorder is a thing, for me, winter is cosy, and not at all depressing.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#88

Post by luckydata » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

looki wrote: post #48

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Lithuania has he same problem as all the Nordics, dark gloomy weather year round. I wanted to emigrate to Sweden due to the high quality of life but the dark, drizzly, windy weather really put me off and some locals I talked to said they were really depressed by it and were either trying to emigrate or work remotely from Southern Europe. In the Blatics it's probably worse as the economic situational is not po…

Meanwhile, being from the northwest of Germany, moving to Sweden would apparently be an upgrade for me[1]. :( It really is quite grim here for a good portion of the year and I will never get used to it (I was born and raised here). [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Europe_s...

if you can swing it move to Spain. Problem solved :)

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#89

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

_yxi6 wrote: post #29

Former Alaskan here. I wasn't shocked to find out Greenland and Nunavut which are also very high north have high suicide rates. The long dark winters can really mess with you after a while which can lead to substance abuse.

Suicide and alcohol related deaths were pretty common on my Ketchikani mom’s side of the family. I imagine it would be worse in Fairbanks, let alone Nome.

I had some friends who did summers in Alaskan canneries, they said all there was to do was drink.

Re: The Highest Suicide Rate in the World

#90

Post by jvanderbot » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #77

kevadk wrote: post #13

For comparison, here are a few of the highest rates per 100k in the US: 98.7 - Kusilvak Census Area, AK; 75.1 - Nome Census Area, AK; 64.2 - Sioux County, ND; 58.9 - Buffalo County, SD; 49.3 - Carbon County, UT https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa Extend the list and you see lots of high latitudes, low incomes, remote rural settings, and indigenous American populations (e.g. Yupik and Inupiaq in Alaska, Siou…

Alcoholism is always rampant when a population is first introduced to the drug. Over centuries, evolution acts to produce a population less prone to it, since people who drink themselves to death don't tend to reproduce. The population that has had access to alcohol for the longest (8000 years, according to a guess I saw somewhere) is the Chinese, where the "asian red flush" gene has developed as a protection against…

Well, I'm confused. Something seems off.

Evolutionary pressures / adaptations over 8000 years would just as likely make a population less likely to suffer adverse effects from, for example, alcohol. (see sickle cell tradeoffs in malaria-risky areas). This genetic syndrome you reference makes damage from alcohol 4x more likely over time.

We'd expect long-time drinking societies to have higher alcohol tolerance to better avoid adverse effects of drinking.