University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42% • Hacker News Board

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#21

Post by brudgers » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:04 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #16

timurlenk wrote: post #8

While this doesn't speak for all its graduates I have met two of their products. One quite young, early thirties, one much older, early sixties. Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university. Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers?

Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers? Not really. Typically a degree means "this person can start and finish a difficult, multi-year project" even if the school isn't top tier. However, the UoP degrees are of such limited rigor that they are more or less treated as a "certification of hobby" by HR departments -- particularly since it isn't an accredited school it's only one step up from a…

>"it isn't an accredited school"

Phoenix is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission [http://www.ncahlc.org/#ncahlc.org] by which other schools in the region are accredited, e.g. University of Michigan.

Specific Phoenix programs are also accredited by the usual suspects as well. [http://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/accreditation.html]

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#22

Post by bane » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:07 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #18

bane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be a function of the first couple generations of students from UoP finding out their expensive degrees carry fantastically little weight in hiring decisions. I know several UoP graduates who have found themselves without any additional employability, no improvement in salary and a huge student debt to pay off.

That's also not unusual for bioscience Phd's from land grant universities, english majors from small liberal arts colleges, or recent Master of Architecture graduates from the Ivy League. If the measure of education is that it provides vocational opportunity, then all we can shut down all higher education except the nursing programs in the community colleges.

If the measure of education is that it provides vocational opportunity, then all we can shut down all higher education except the nursing programs in the community colleges.

I would say it's one of the measures of an education. But I don't necessarily disagree with your other examples.

Waxing poetically about UoP as a second chance school is true. I'm willing to be that a majority of the student body could be called "second chancers". It's unfortunate that the school has ended up with a rather negative image problem it needs to shed (that and not bother becoming a proper accredited school so credits are transferable/recognized elsewhere is a huge problem).

(Full disclosure, I could also be considered a second chancer but went a more traditional route -- so I can feel some sense of sympatico for UoP students)

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#23

Post by brudgers » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:09 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #17

brudgers wrote: post #15

Disclosure: My spouse teaches online for Phoenix. Phoenix's success and also a source of criticism is due to its liberal admissions policy and therefore it accepts students who might not be considered fully prepared for college level courses by other institutions. People can legitimately come down on both sides of such an enrollment policy, on the one hand, it can be argued that it deprecates the value of a college d…

Couldn't one say that poor performing students at UoP is a sign that the school's grading and student evaluation is fair (i.e. the system is working) as opposed to rampant grade inflation seen elsewhere?

My spouse teaches there, I don't really know what the grade distribution is. However, my understanding is that poor academic performance by Phoenix students is often a function of background and immediate circumstances.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#24

Post by _delirium » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:21 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #18

bane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also be a function of the first couple generations of students from UoP finding out their expensive degrees carry fantastically little weight in hiring decisions. I know several UoP graduates who have found themselves without any additional employability, no improvement in salary and a huge student debt to pay off.

That's also not unusual for bioscience Phd's from land grant universities, english majors from small liberal arts colleges, or recent Master of Architecture graduates from the Ivy League. If the measure of education is that it provides vocational opportunity, then all we can shut down all higher education except the nursing programs in the community colleges.

It would be nice to see some statistics, but I suspect that an english major from a small liberal arts college is actually significantly more valuable. Of course it isn't going to get you a job using the English major, but it qualifies you for the generic HR screen of "4-year college degree from a respectable institution", which opens up a tier of jobs not available with just a high-school diploma. The unemployment rates and average incomes of people with 4-year liberal-arts degrees are certainly much better than those with just high-school diplomas. Is the same true of UoP degree holders? I'm not sure, but my guess is that UoP degrees don't pass as many HR screens, especially at large companies, at least for now.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#25

Post by _delirium » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:25 PM UTC

aonic wrote: post #10

What's a good & accredited online university for CS courses?

The closest I know of (but there may be others) is this Virginia Tech program for an online masters in IT: http://www.vtmit.vt.edu/

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#26

Post by ben1040 » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:39 PM UTC

haploid wrote: post #13

timurlenk wrote: post #8

While this doesn't speak for all its graduates I have met two of their products. One quite young, early thirties, one much older, early sixties. Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university. Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers?

"Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university" I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean here. What maturity and "view" would this be? A lack of "getting drunk at the frat house and banging some sorostitutes" stories? But in all seriousness, I'd like to know what kind of "maturity" and "view" spending 4 years at a constant party would grant someone, that is somehow su…

While you have a good point that it's unfair to claim people who didn't attend university are narrow minded and immature, it isn't any better to say the four year university experience is universally a four year long constant party.

I know people with no degree who are extremely successful, practical minded people. Most people I know would also recall university as four years of hard work with little time left for partying.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#27

Post by jeremymcanally » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 3:44 PM UTC

aonic wrote: post #10

What's a good & accredited online university for CS courses?

Troy University has an online bachelor's in CS, but the curriculum isn't exactly inspired. It's a mish-mash of good CS stuff with WTF's (such as being forced to take a senior level course on COBOL).

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#28

Post by timurlenk » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 4:02 PM UTC

haploid wrote: post #13

timurlenk wrote: post #8

While this doesn't speak for all its graduates I have met two of their products. One quite young, early thirties, one much older, early sixties. Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university. Is a degree from university of Phoenix taken serious by employers?

"Both had the maturity and view on life of someone, well...who didn't go to university" I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean here. What maturity and "view" would this be? A lack of "getting drunk at the frat house and banging some sorostitutes" stories? But in all seriousness, I'd like to know what kind of "maturity" and "view" spending 4 years at a constant party would grant someone, that is somehow su…

I seem to have offended some readers and I apologize for that.

Personally I come form a different background (eastern Europe) and at the time i went to university it meant working your ass off on projects and papers, working for professors that seemed unreasonable and obtuse and building relationships with colleagues and professors.

That time did give us a certain maturity and taught as an approach to people and work. Little did we know, the people we ended up working with were even more unreasonable and narrow-minded.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#29

Post by MichaelSalib » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

aonic wrote: post #10

What's a good & accredited online university for CS courses?

I've heard some good things about UIUC's online program [1]. My spouse took some graduate level electrical engineering classes at Columbia's online program [2] and had a mixed experience. Some of the classes were really good, but in some cases the adjunct profs weren't very dedicated to teaching; then again, failure to maintain quality control on professional instruction is a problem at lots of reputable schools.

[1] http://www.online.uillinois.edu/ [2] http://www.cvn.columbia.edu/

Re: University of Phoenix Enrollment Down by 42%

#30

Post by nodogbite » Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

There are three categories of college degrees, when it comes to helping you advance your career:

1. A small set of elite schools: Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech. Having Harvard on your resume will always stand out. "Harvard, huh? Certainly worth a look at what else he/she has done."

2. A school that happens to match with the hiring person -- you happened to attend whatever state school or private college that the hiring person went to or knows well. This is basically nepotism.

3. Everything else. UoP is most likely to end in this bucket.