America’s New Sex Bureaucracy • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#181

Post by 0xcraft » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

gm678 wrote: post #120

mirimir wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any direct (or indirect) experience. So what happens now if a man accuses a woman of "raping" him? I'm guessing that he'd be ignored. And I don't think the standards will become gender-neutral any faster than they'll become just. I do wonder, though, whether young men are becoming more cautious about who they have sex with. And if there's any way to protect oneself against future rape accusations. Perhap…

" So what happens now if a man accuses a woman of "raping" him? I'm guessing that he'd be ignored. " I do think there is currently a double standard, and I think that misogyny and the view of women as "passive" participants in sex contributes to that. The CDC estimates that 1 in 71 men will be raped in their lifetime, and an analysis by Scientific American found that 79 percent of male victims of rape reported it to…

My experience relating being raped to friends was generally not a positive one. I found women tended to be more open to believing my story. Men were pretty skeptical. Of course, sharing my experience didn't happen for many years. In the mid 1980s the idea that men even could be raped by a woman was a bit farfetched both socially and legally.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#182

Post by esyir » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #59

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

>But after a lifetime in service of the feminist cause, she took on the case of a friend whose son she came to believe had been wrongly convicted of rape and won his acquittal on appeal. This is one of the big ways in which sexism is a much more tractable problem than racism and less potentially explosive. Women and men both have members of the opposite sex that they genuinely love. I have heard that fathers with dau…

How would bias toward gay people fit in with that? A lot of people don't know (or at least aren't aware that they know) anyone gay, but bias toward gay people has dramatically fallen over the last couple of decades. There was a recent episode of "Hidden Brain" on NPR that talked about this [1]. This part is particularly interesting: > In a thought experiment, Mahzarin and her colleagues have extended the trend lines…

Could you define bias against obesity and elderly here?

If I were to categorize the elderly as generally less capable than say, a man in his 40s, I would also generally be right. Age comes with it's demerits, and recognizing this would not be anti-elderly bias.

From what I gather, bias is an issue when it unfairly penalizes people for factors outside their control that do not significantly impact their capability.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#183

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #59

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

>But after a lifetime in service of the feminist cause, she took on the case of a friend whose son she came to believe had been wrongly convicted of rape and won his acquittal on appeal. This is one of the big ways in which sexism is a much more tractable problem than racism and less potentially explosive. Women and men both have members of the opposite sex that they genuinely love. I have heard that fathers with dau…

How would bias toward gay people fit in with that? A lot of people don't know (or at least aren't aware that they know) anyone gay, but bias toward gay people has dramatically fallen over the last couple of decades. There was a recent episode of "Hidden Brain" on NPR that talked about this [1]. This part is particularly interesting: > In a thought experiment, Mahzarin and her colleagues have extended the trend lines…

but bias toward gay people has dramatically fallen over the last couple of decades

Online dating has proven to help gays with successfully finding relationships. Gays can be openly gay online while protecting their privacy. This has helped give people some exposure to gays and their problems who wouldn't otherwise have similar exposure in meat space.

I also think the trend to identify as asexual where such people were probably historically viewed as committed bachelors has probably helped take some of the discomfort out of the equation. Historically, not being interested in sex was not a sexual identity. Now it is.

And that takes the concept of sexual identity into new territory that I think makes it less threatening because it casts light on the fact that sexual identity can be about you and not about other people per se, if that makes sense.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#184

Post by dgzl » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #171

dgzl wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... so you say that "A whole lot of this BS is rooted in the idea that a woman's sexuality is a prize to be won by ... a man who earns enough to take care of her," and you'll entertain the idea that it comes from women more than men, but you want to justify it by saying "women need a man's income to not be dirt poor." Do you realize how poor of an argument that is? Even reading "most women need men's income" as a leg…

I was homeless for nearly six years. During that time, random men who realized I was homeless would either offer me cash for sex or ask if I needed a place to live. Meanwhile, attempts to figure out how to earn an income were met very dismissively. Attempts to figure out how to network on HN got me essentially nowhere. I have written pieces that did well on the front page of HN. My Patreon remains underfunded and I g…

I can't really help you with networking, and I'm not the kind of person who thinks things like being high-ranked entitles you to something other than bragging rights. I certainly don't know enough about the blogging scene to help you there.

I don't see the justification in calling HN a Boy's Club either, as there are zero barriers to participate other than a computer. That term is usually used when people exclude women from the group because they are women, but nobody here knows or cares what sex you are.

I'm sorry for your situations, I really am. My mother and I used to be homeless and now she's entirely dependant on the government for survival. It's heartbreaking because as I grew older, I realized she had essentially done it to herself.

Yes, I think your attitude is a direct contributor to some of your problems. No, I don't think it's easy to have a good attitude when you're in the gutter. I wish I had more advice, but my options about these things are pretty comprehensive and this isn't the best place to dig into it.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#185

Post by new2628 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #146

wutbrodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, racism is much more of a fully-stable equilibrium than sexism, since full dehumanization of the other sex is always going to be impossible, if only due to adjacency. And adjacency can be critical to rights movements: one of the big successes of the gay rights movement was combating the stereotype of evil deviants through a strategy of positioning gay people as neighbors, brothers, sons, etc; regular people w…

> full dehumanization of the other sex is always going to be impossible, if only due to adjacency No surprise, then, that it shows up in the segment of men who are not "adjacent" to any women.

Why leave out the symmetric case of women who are not "adjacent" to any men?

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#186

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:01 AM UTC

lisper wrote: post #180

DoreenMichele wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that's because most women need a man's income to not be dirt poor. I appear to be the highest ranked woman on HN. I appear to be the only woman to ever have spent time on the leader board. It has resulted in nearly zero professional connections. When I complain about that, I get blown off and told that's not something I should expect from HN, nevermind that it works that way for plenty of men. I was homeless…

I've been on the LB for months and it hasn't resulted in any contacts at all. In fact, AFAICT being on the HNLB is a complete no-op. And I'm a white male.

It's not uncommon for someone like you to make a statement like this when I make such comments.

I imagine I would be downvoted to hell and possibly crabbed at by the mods if I began researching members of the leader board to prove my case or even just began ticking off what I happen to know off the top of my head.

I'm not at my best at the moment. Suffice it to say this kind of statement is part of the problem in my eyes, though it often seems motivated by good intentions.

There are men who've used their popularity here to make contacts, promote their work, etc. The fact that you aren't one of them isn't actually evidence that it can't be done.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#187

Post by jimbob45 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:05 AM UTC

brandmeyer wrote: post #65

hirundo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you at least consider yourself outside of the camp that considers it to be "rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated”, and feels no need for standard due process measures in campus sexual assault judgments? What would be the equivalent extremities of the opposite camp? I'm not hearing from many opponents that sexual assault should be tolerated. It's more common to hear that they should be immediately esca…

> I'm not hearing from many opponents that sexual assault should be tolerated. It wasn't that long ago that a literal parade of college students were chanting "No means yes! Yes means anal!" Fortunately, that behavior isn't common. But it also isn't fair to insinuate that the other side doesn't exist.

That's actually pretty funny. In reality, I'd say it was a good thing too. Better to be upfront that the world is a cruel and unforgiving place to young men/women than to pretend the judicial process is ever going to consistently be able to obtain sufficient evidence for rape charges.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#188

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:11 AM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #184

DoreenMichele wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was homeless for nearly six years. During that time, random men who realized I was homeless would either offer me cash for sex or ask if I needed a place to live. Meanwhile, attempts to figure out how to earn an income were met very dismissively. Attempts to figure out how to network on HN got me essentially nowhere. I have written pieces that did well on the front page of HN. My Patreon remains underfunded and I g…

I can't really help you with networking, and I'm not the kind of person who thinks things like being high-ranked entitles you to something other than bragging rights. I certainly don't know enough about the blogging scene to help you there. I don't see the justification in calling HN a Boy's Club either, as there are zero barriers to participate other than a computer. That term is usually used when people exclude wom…

I don't see the justification in calling HN a Boy's Club either, as there are zero barriers to participate other than a computer. That term is usually used when people exclude women from the group because they are women, but nobody here knows or cares what sex you are.

It is overwhelmingly male. There is plenty of evidence that women would like to participate more but are put off by some of what goes on here.

Yes, I think your attitude is a direct contributor to some of your problems.

Yes, this is typical. And it's maddening.

I made the leader board. That accomplishment doesn't get credited to me. But my failure to achieve my goals gets blamed on me, conveniently hand-waving away all evidence that sexism is a real problem.

Let me reiterate my original point and then try to walk away from this ridiculous debacle:

Men don't have to treat women like property. All they have to do is silently exclude them professionally, thereby making sure women have little hope of a comfortable life without marrying a man with a good income.

If men would like to stop being targeted by gold diggers and start finding lovers who want them for reasons other than their money, they should start making more of an effort to find ways to bring those barriers down.

When women can make their own money and can have sex to meet their own sexual needs, we might see frivolous accusations of rape to preserve female pretense of chastity and virtue go way down.

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#189

Post by mirimir » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:12 AM UTC

0xcraft wrote: post #181

gm678 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" So what happens now if a man accuses a woman of "raping" him? I'm guessing that he'd be ignored. " I do think there is currently a double standard, and I think that misogyny and the view of women as "passive" participants in sex contributes to that. The CDC estimates that 1 in 71 men will be raped in their lifetime, and an analysis by Scientific American found that 79 percent of male victims of rape reported it to…

My experience relating being raped to friends was generally not a positive one. I found women tended to be more open to believing my story. Men were pretty skeptical. Of course, sharing my experience didn't happen for many years. In the mid 1980s the idea that men even could be raped by a woman was a bit farfetched both socially and legally.

As a guy, I can't quite imagine being raped by a woman. Unless she was wielding a suitable device, anyway.

But I have, after wild parties, found myself in bed with women who, in retrospect, I didn't find all that appealing. And yes, I know, that's a cliché.

Even so, I'd never make a big deal about it. We all do stupid things when we're intoxicated. "Así fue ... son las cosas de la vida".

Re: America’s New Sex Bureaucracy

#190

Post by benj111 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #59

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

>But after a lifetime in service of the feminist cause, she took on the case of a friend whose son she came to believe had been wrongly convicted of rape and won his acquittal on appeal. This is one of the big ways in which sexism is a much more tractable problem than racism and less potentially explosive. Women and men both have members of the opposite sex that they genuinely love. I have heard that fathers with dau…

How would bias toward gay people fit in with that? A lot of people don't know (or at least aren't aware that they know) anyone gay, but bias toward gay people has dramatically fallen over the last couple of decades. There was a recent episode of "Hidden Brain" on NPR that talked about this [1]. This part is particularly interesting: > In a thought experiment, Mahzarin and her colleagues have extended the trend lines…

"it's about 60 more years for anti-black biases to be eliminated, 140 years for skin tone biases against darker skin to go away"

Why the distinction? Will black people still be facing skin tone biases in 61 years? What even is a skin tone bias? I'm pretty sure this isn't a bias against people who come back from holiday with a tan, which suggests it's not about skin tone, so racism?