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Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

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Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#141

Post by AstralStorm »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #127
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is superficially compelling but I fear that it is ultimately argument from ignorance. It is true that we don’t know everything. You even offer a fairly elaborate example of something that we don’t know whether it happened or not. It could be true. The problem here is that you offer no evidence to support whether it is true or not. Now it’s story time and instead of evaluating the studies and working wit…

The whole point for randomized trials, and much of modern statistics is to argue from ignorance. You hypothesize that maybe there's something missing, who knows. A causal boogey man. Then you design a test robust to that. One term for problems this leads to is omitted variable bias. It's not about "ooh maybe this one thing is bad." It's about "this class of problem is introduced." It's tough to make an intuitive stor…

The problem being, RCTs are tricky to set up for social variables to have enough statistical power, while avoiding the "test bias" which is known to change behavior. (Essentially a kind of placebo effect.) It has to be huge.

And how do you produce a social placebo to detect such effects by comparison? No treatment is not the same as known fake treatment.

In fact, even the observational study here is quite underpowered and not multicultural. It is to be taken with a few bags of salt.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#142

Post by solidsnack9000 »

dwaltrip wrote: post #123
xyzzyz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are and will always be considerations not taken into account. Raising them is thus a fully general counterargument, and as such is best ignored. If you don't want your potential confounders be ignored, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that these confounders actually matter.

There isn't a general case rule you can apply here to determine burden of proof. If the target domain is incredibly complex with major fundamental unknowns, then even robust results should not be viewed as 100% definitive.

It is a good practice to not view results as 100% definitive and be willing to revise your ideas in the light of disconfirming observations — just not in the light of disconfirming stories.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#143

Post by solidsnack9000 »

mokus wrote: post #124
dwaltrip wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a general case rule you can apply here to determine burden of proof. If the target domain is incredibly complex with major fundamental unknowns, then even robust results should not be viewed as 100% definitive.

IMO the “burden of proof” is a mostly vacuous concept to begin with, because it always and only ever lies with the party that wishes to change others’ minds.

What you said is basically “the one who asserts must prove”, an old standard way to describe the burden of proof.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#145

Post by solidsnack9000 »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #127
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is superficially compelling but I fear that it is ultimately argument from ignorance. It is true that we don’t know everything. You even offer a fairly elaborate example of something that we don’t know whether it happened or not. It could be true. The problem here is that you offer no evidence to support whether it is true or not. Now it’s story time and instead of evaluating the studies and working wit…

The whole point for randomized trials, and much of modern statistics is to argue from ignorance. You hypothesize that maybe there's something missing, who knows. A causal boogey man. Then you design a test robust to that. One term for problems this leads to is omitted variable bias. It's not about "ooh maybe this one thing is bad." It's about "this class of problem is introduced." It's tough to make an intuitive stor…

Argument from ignorance is a specific kind of logical fallacy. It’s where you argue for something by saying, in effect, “we don’t know that it’s not true”.

If a hypothesis leads you to test for something and collect (dis)confirming evidence, And your argument hinges on the evidence, then we aren’t arguing from ignorance.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#146

Post by agumonkey »

baroffoos wrote: post #132
whatshisface wrote: post #53

All of the games I played as a kid were clearly designed for boys and young men (featuring all of the typical things like guns and heavy machinery that men are well known to like more than women). That's just how the market was. If it's like that today, then it is no wonder that boys exhibit signs of enjoying video games more.

Guns and heavy machinery are not topics for boys. Its just that those things are pushed on boys more while they are growing up. My sisters main game right now is counter strike. I saw an interesting video last year where they used toddlers young enough to have no visible gender and they got in babysitters to help the toddlers play with toys. They gave the toddlers random gendered names and clothes. They then asked th…

I beg to differ. Early on boys will pick up wood staff and play fight. They need no hint here.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#147

Post by DoreenMichele »

Anecdotal:

I'm female and I like playing city building games and puzzle games, like Tetris or match three games. My sons have introduced me to games like Master of Magic by saying "It's like your favorite: SimCity" and then helping me relate to it as a civilization building game, downplaying the fighty aspects.

Longer version of that anecdote here:

https://momturnedgamer.blogspot.com/p/about.html

I think my point is that gendered expectations can be overcome to some degree, especially if you have allies who aren't invested in keeping you stuck in a particular role. Generally speaking, men who were romantically interested in me have failed to be that kind of ally.

Not how I wanted it, mind you.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#148

Post by proverbialbunny »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #92
ineedasername wrote: post #81

The original (more clicky baity) said "brain differences", which really isn't born out by the article. It seems highly likely that these preferences are socially constructed. I have two kids under the age of 10, and both play video games with the same fervor & intensity. Neither are allowed on social media yet. (yes, that's a sample size of 1, so it's hardly authoritative, just a case-in-point) Also, at least some of…

>"brain differences", which really isn't born out by the article. It seems highly likely that these preferences are socially constructed. What we do and experience in our life shapes our brain. So anything that says "brain differences" without further detail is at best pop neurology.

For the downvoters, here's more on the topic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/london-taxi-memor...

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#149

Post by brodo »

esyir wrote: post #138
throwaway010718 wrote: post #136

Imagine if this headline read "Research on drunks' preference for aggressiveness and sobers' for politeness". Would anyone argue that nurture and societal norms is the reason drunks behave more aggressively ? As someone who has been drunk on testosterone most of their life, I can testify it is a powerful and fun drug. Perhaps if research was framed in terms of hormonal differences rather than sex differences it would…

It shouldn't be controversial at all. There are sex differences. A good chunk of those differences are the effect of hormonal differences that stem from sexual dimorphism that in turn likely stem from some other evolutionary selection process. Does culture play a role in behavior? Probably. But is there an inherent difference between the sexes? Yes.

In the nature vs nurture debate, every time someone argues for all nature or all nurture it’s an ideological position. That biology has no influence on behavior is as absurd as that society has none. The division into nature and nurture is also not as clean-cut as people think it is. There are many things in human culture that are that way because of biology and our culture influences our biology over the long run.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#150

Post by gsich »

Vrondi wrote: post #5

The article claims that inside games "most communication is through text". This makes me think they haven't seen very many real gamers. There's no mention of voice chat's extensive use inside games for everything from gameplay to homework advice from buddies. Pretty clueless.

Problem is that it's not as easily trackable. So in order to safe the effort, just declare text as the "winner".
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