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Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

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Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#331
post #168

Am I the only one concerned about the possible repercussions (to the wearer, I mean) of triggering a law enforcement response? There have been multiple cases now where (American, obviously) Law Enforcement have brutalized and injured people experiencing diabetic shock. And what if the fall and unconsciousness is the result of illicit drug use? Surely the wearer doesn't want a call to 911 to be the default behavior in…

An interesting take but I think, even factoring in police brutality, it is still the morally correct choice to call 911.

>There have been multiple cases now where (American, obviously) Law Enforcement have brutalized and injured people experiencing diabetic shock.

Given the odds, there are likely far more cases of people being seriously injured or even killed from diabetic shock that do not pop up on the public perception radar because they are not attached to a social spectacle.

>And what if the fall and unconsciousness is the result of illicit drug use? Surely the wearer doesn't want a call to 911 to be the default behavior in that case.

I don't know if that's your (our?) call to make. Whether a drug abuser wants to die from their drug abuse is, I think, a deeply personal choice. Unless they have a DNR (which they can get if they are so inclined), I think the right choice is to try to intervene and get them to survive before throwing the book at them.

FWIW, there are many laws centered around "forgiving" people involved in incidents like this to increase the response/survival rate. For example, I live in a college town and if you report someone (underage even) overdosing on alcohol or any other illicit drug, the police are instructed to not pursue a criminal case against the overdoser or anyone who reports the incident (even if they themselves are breaking the law). The point being that anyone who finds themselves in situations like this will hesitate to call for help, and laws like these increase the odds that people in trouble get the help they need in time.

>Does Apple act with greater discretion in jurisdictions where law enforcement are known to be criminally brutal or corrupt? I suspect that the answer is "no."

Two things here. First, I don't know what "greater discretion" would imply here - they wait longer before calling, or adjust the threshold of what constitutes a fall? Second, "jurisdictions where law enforcement are known to be criminally brutal or corrupt" is a deeply subjective topic, probably one which Apple rightfully should have zero cards in. I also fear that you will find that districts that engage in brutality also happen to have a large minority population (since you state white people are not affected by police brutality at the same rate that minorities are), and this will further reduce the usefulness of this feature for those people.

>Since people of color experience a greater proportion of negative outcomes from law enforcement contact, I surmise this feature is far more useful for white people.

While you make a good point with conditions like diabetic shock and presumably seizures, I think this feature was generally meant for people who have lost consciousness (as the subject in the article did). I think even the most egregiously corrupt police force in the country would still call in an ambulance for a guy who has passed out rather than proceed to taze him or something.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the market for a smart watch, and you're a cyclist, I'd recommend checking out Garmin. They have a massive array of sensors and record very precise data that is aggregated on Garmin Connect. It's been invaluable to me for assessing training effectiveness over time. They make Apple watches look like toys. If you want the latest and greatest, the Forerunner 945 is probably what you're looking for, but the…

How are they on privacy? The issue that I have is that every wearable device expects you to allow upload of sensitive information to their servers. At this point, especially with medical information such as heart rate, I do not trust it on any computer not covered by HIPAA or under my control.

> The issue that I have is that every wearable device expects you to allow upload of sensitive information to their servers

This is not the case with the Apple Watch - your Health data lives and dies on your phone unless you back it up or choose to share it with other apps.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#333

Does this feature work outside the US? Which countries are supported? https://www.apple.com/watch/cellular/ has a country list but not for this feature specifically. edit: found https://www.apple.com/watchos/feature-availability/

Emergency SOS should work in any country, as long as you have your iPhone nearby or you have a Cellular-enabled watch.

Your second link is specific to international roaming with the cellular-enabled watch, which gets complicated for various reasons (do you need an active SIM, does the modem on the watch support bands used in that country).

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#334

All the more reason for Apple to do everything it takes to make the Apple Watch work with Android.

This makes little sense. You’re imposing your sense of morality on an entity that is not beholden to the public good of mankind. If you want that that kind of service for everyone for betterment reasons, then demand your legislators to have the government invest in such a technology and have them distribute it. If Apple wants to do something for more reasons, that’s their prerogative. It’s no different than demanding that drug companies relinquish all patents on life saving drugs so that availability is greater and the product is cheaper while being dismissive of the development costs and efforts to get there.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What we list for legal purposes" and "what the device actually does" might not be the same thing. I imagine saying "my device detects heart attacks" gets the FDA involved and makes everything ten times more expensive...

The watch doesn't have enough data to detect a heart attack. It's not possible for the device to do it (with current, or even near-future technology it's not possible for any wrist worn device to detect a heart attack as it's happening).

It is theoretically possible now, with clunky technology that is not wrist-worn.

Development of a 12-Lead ECG Signal Processing Algorithm Using NI LabVIEW® and NI ELVIS: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8574627

You would most likely need a 12 lead ECG/EKG too, to detect it accurately.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m disappointed that Android Wear didn’t take off. More competition would greatly increase innovation. Android wearables have a chicken and egg problem. Manufacturers aren't innovating because nobody is buying and nobody is buying because there are no innovations. Apple is fully vertically integrated so it can recoup the high R&D costs for new silicon and other components through the price of the unit but on Androi…

Apple also has the willingness (and resources, but those resources are a consequence of that willingness) to double down on tech it believes in. If Apple Watch hadn’t been an immediate success, I’d like to think they’d still be pushing hard to make it so. Most of its competitors have far more offerings with much less commitment behind any one of them.

> If Apple Watch hadn’t been an immediate success, I’d like to think they’d still be pushing hard to make it so.

Apple Watch wasn't an immediate success - at least not in the form we see it today. WatchOS 1.0 was dramatically different from what we have today, with much less focus on health and more focus on 'connecting you with people' and stuff.

Apple kept working at it, paring out the stuff that wasn't useful (the side button was originally dedicated to a list of contacts to send messages to for example), and doubled down on the stuff that was (health). Clearly it has worked...

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#337

What if you come home after a bad day in a bad mood and throw your watch down on the nightstand? Will an ambulance show up at your house?

Yeah or like, what if you just fall and decide to stay laying down for a minute but you’re actually fine? I wonder if the fall has to happen in combination with some other health metrics that it senses? Does there even need to be a falling down? What if you have a heart attack while you’re strapped into your parked car and you don’t fall? Does it call then?

It alarms (rather loudly for a tiny watch) and taps you vigorously asking if you're ok before calling. You have plenty of time to cancel the call to emergency services before it's made.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#338

What if you come home after a bad day in a bad mood and throw your watch down on the nightstand? Will an ambulance show up at your house?

Hopefully it has a heart beat detector That said, the cupholder in my riding lawn mower squeezes my iPhone 8 buttons into SoS mode. The first time it called 911 and I picked it up 30 minutes to a missed call and a text. No ambulance. Next time I mowed it, it called 911 again. No call and no text. I guess I made the 911 pranker list? Yay? Hopefully I don’t need it. Wonder what makes this guy get an ambulance and me in…

Fall detection on Apple Watch doesn’t just dial emergency services like Emergency SOS does, they could hear you mowing your lawn and probably assumed you called by mistake (it happens).

When fall detection activates a 60 second timer starts and the watch vibrates like mad trying to get your attention, if you do not dismiss the alert not only does it dial emergency services and text your location to registered emergency contacts, it actually starts speaking to the operator stating that you have fallen as well as providing your GPS coordinates.

The assumption is that you manually activating emergency SOS implies you are alert enough to speak with the operator, but somebody unresponsive after a fall needs the device to ensure they get assistance even though they are incapacitated.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#339

Tip: the fall detection feature seems to be turned off by default. I just turned mine on. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208944

Also of note: Fall detection is exclusive to the series 4 or above, which seems questionable. (I would be very surprised if the series 3 and 4 have significantly different accelerometer hardware)

Consider that to detect falls reliably, you might need an accelerometer with a higher range than that was in the original watch.

Re: Bike crash left Spokane man unconscious, so his Apple Watch called 911

#340

I genuinely wonder what it said when the 911 operator picked up.

Me too, though it was probably an SMS, not a call. US emergency services accept text messages. The article says: "His watch messaged emergency medical services at 12:02 p.m., and an ambulance was there within a minute." Though this seems to be contradicted by the previous paragraph: "His Apple Watch had called 911 through the fall-detection feature, which sends out an alert if the wearer is immobile for 60 seconds af…

> Me too, though it was probably an SMS, not a call. US emergency services accept text messages.

Point of clarification - US Emergency services can accept text messages. Currently it's only available in certain areas, and it's up to each local ESD/911 call center to implement it if they choose.

And yes - the apple watch does call 911.

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