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OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

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Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#51

Post by lone_haxx0r »

hanjiexi wrote: post #43
tombert wrote: post #2

This is a bit hypocritical coming from a self-taught dropout, but I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. This isn't because of some idea that it's bad to learn programming for fun, but more that I think it's kind of reductive to try and squeeze things down to a streamlined lesson to begin with...There's a reason college takes four or more years; it ta…

I'm one of the maintainers of the curriculum. > I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. I somewhat agree, though I don't really see the problem with "learn to code" style programs if learning to code is precisely your goal. What I don't like is the seemingly widespread belief that learning to code is equivalent to learning computer science, when comput…

> drop off rates are extremely high for MOOCs.

I see this statistic tossed around quite a lot.

Maybe it's because many MOOCs require you (or at least urge you) to login and officially "enroll" in their course to see the content.

Many times I've been just looking around a MOOC out of curiosity, but I'm required to "enroll" in it in order to see the material. So I login, "enroll", take a quick look at the content and forget about it.

It's not necessarily a fault of the MOOC format.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#52

Post by hanjiexi »

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #51
hanjiexi wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the maintainers of the curriculum. > I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. I somewhat agree, though I don't really see the problem with "learn to code" style programs if learning to code is precisely your goal. What I don't like is the seemingly widespread belief that learning to code is equivalent to learning computer science, when comput…

> drop off rates are extremely high for MOOCs. I see this statistic tossed around quite a lot. Maybe it's because many MOOCs require you (or at least urge you) to login and officially "enroll" in their course to see the content. Many times I've been just looking around a MOOC out of curiosity, but I'm required to "enroll" in it in order to see the material. So I login, "enroll", take a quick look at the content and f…

Very true! I think all educational material should be openly accessible without login, and that enrollment should be something entirely separate and optional.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#53

Post by Myrmornis »

unnouinceput wrote: post #10

Browsing throughout those courses I found out that more then 50% of them require you to either sign in with FB or Google in order to access them, so no thank you. Remember, if something is free then you're the product.

You can create a new throwaway account if you're worried about it.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#54

Post by icpmacdo »

pmiller2 wrote: post #50

This is great, but I was wondering if there is any similar, more text-based alternative? Videos are great, but I prefer text.

See jamestimmins post about https://teachyourselfcs.com it's a recommendation of textbooks to follow for self learning CS

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#55

Post by devmacrile »

lol768 wrote: post #24
Pfhreak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 50/50 on this. Part of me really agrees with you -- you need time and practice and mistakes to learn this stuff. But also, I'm not sure it has to be wall clock time. Four years at university gets you breadth that is probably good for you as a human, and probably important for contextualizing your work as an engineer (oh hey, history might be a valuable lesson for your understanding of ethics. Art and literature m…

>oh hey, history might be a valuable lesson for your understanding of ethics. Art and literature might combine with your computer science degree to inspire projects natural language processing or generative art For what it's worth, this is a very American approach to college. You generally wouldn't spend more than 3 years on an undergrad course as a student in the UK - because you tend to spend the vast majority of t…

Possibly because the U.S. provides the "best high school education in the world.. It's just a shame you have to go to college to get it."

-- Alan Kay, some anecdote I forget how to locate

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#56

Post by deepnotderp »

dlphn___xyz wrote: post #29

why doesnt this exist for any other field? you never hear of a DIY mathematician or economist...further proves that tech is a trade not a profession

Ramanujan was a "DIY" mathematician. It's just that the barriers to entry are relatively low for tech.

But sure, suppose it's a "trade", so what?

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#57

Post by robomartin »

tombert wrote: post #2

This is a bit hypocritical coming from a self-taught dropout, but I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. This isn't because of some idea that it's bad to learn programming for fun, but more that I think it's kind of reductive to try and squeeze things down to a streamlined lesson to begin with...There's a reason college takes four or more years; it ta…

I disagree with you in one regard, I think you are taking the position of a young person who hasn't had much education outside of high school.

Take a look at it from the perspective of a 30 or 40-something with some college or a degree in another domain looking to transition into CS. In this case, the fact that formal CS degrees are, I dare say, polluted, with irrelevant crap is a waste of time, money and brain power. For example, my son, who happens to be studying CS at a major university was forced to take a class on Marxism. The only word I can come-up to describe this is: Demented.

I would prefer to see a system where degree programs focus on the material necessary to support the degree and nothing else. They could, as an aside, offer a parallel track where the student could take additional non-degree classes for general culture. These classes should not have any effect whatsoever on the degree. To continue with the example, if my son failed or dropped out of the Marxism class (he did not, he passed it with full marks) it should have no bearing on his overall standing in the CS degree.

I also disagree with the concept of a fixed timescale being required in order to gain understanding of a topic. There's plenty of evidence in support of this. Companies complain that traditional CS grads don't know how to write code. Yet they spend four to six years in school getting BS or MS degrees.

Frankly, going back to my son, if it weren't for the fact that we work on a number of real-world projects together his coding skills based on schoolwork would likely be substandard. There's a difference between learning to CS to pass tests and applying it in real-world environments.

My argument might very well support the opposite conclusion: Get through schools as quickly as possible, one or two years for a BS in CS and go to work. Medicine has residency and internship as part of the process for that very reason.

I would much rather hire someone who devoted a couple of intense years learning and two years full time directly applying and honing the craft than someone who takes four years to study and comes to me with no experience other than, perhaps, a few summers as an intern here and there.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#58

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

tombert wrote: post #2

This is a bit hypocritical coming from a self-taught dropout, but I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. This isn't because of some idea that it's bad to learn programming for fun, but more that I think it's kind of reductive to try and squeeze things down to a streamlined lesson to begin with...There's a reason college takes four or more years; it ta…

High school drop out turned software engineer here. I never had any success with these sort of programs. My advice is pick a hard problem (to you) and stick with it until you've solved it. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you will be pretty good at solving problems.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#59

Post by devmacrile »

saboot wrote: post #18

I really like this list, but believe it's wrongly titled. I'm a nuclear engineer, who pretty much just writes modelling software all day. The software architecture stuff is something I've never been taught and always felt would be immensely valuable to learn. Some good resources for that on this list. Also a request for any resources of scientists trying to get their head around how to write good software, we're all…

That is basically the mission statement of Software Carpentry (https://software-carpentry.org/). They have a _ton_ of great material for those in scientific computing wanting to improve their software engineering skills.

Re: OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science

#60

Post by alexandercoward »

tombert wrote: post #2

This is a bit hypocritical coming from a self-taught dropout, but I have kind of grown to dislike a lot of these "learn programming on your own!" things/bootcamps/courses. This isn't because of some idea that it's bad to learn programming for fun, but more that I think it's kind of reductive to try and squeeze things down to a streamlined lesson to begin with...There's a reason college takes four or more years; it ta…

You make very good points. The simple fact is that claiming you can transition from being uneducated to educated in any field or in general in a few months watching youtube videos is absurd. People who claim such a thing is possible are claiming something on the scale of an educational space elevator.

There are however alternatives to traditional college that are effective. One example is EDeeU Education (https://edeeu.education). There you can study with people like Clemens Ley (https://edeeu.education/director/clemensley) an Oxford PhD in theoretical computer science and now blockchain entrepreneur. You work through a detailed curriculum over a number of years. It's not the same as traditional college, but for people who are working or have a family and might want more flexibility of schedule, it's a good thing to look at.

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