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Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

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Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#291

Post by dTal »

ChrisSD wrote: post #276
dTal wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so if research is government funded, said government can just... suppress results? That's horrifyingly corrupt. That right there is a scandal. In that position, I would be tempted to take a stand and release the data as originally planned, while blowing the lid off the whole corruption. Write in big letters on the website "THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE THIS". If you're worried about your career... why?…

If it's available for a fee than it's not suppression, though it is an impedance to the free flow of information. And to be fair it does cost money to host large collections of data.

I'm not sure what "suppression" is, if not a deliberate impedance to the free flow of information. It need not be absolute censorship - indeed, absolute censorship is likely to be a less effective suppressant, due to the Streisand effect.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#292

Post by rajacombinator »

sn41 wrote: post #7

In the years to come, I believe free software will be recognised as one of the paradigmatic changes in how science itself is done. Now chemists and biologists have started talking about making data openly available and so forth. It's a shame that RMS has to spout forth on every issue, and in the current climate of outrage, science may have lost an important transformational voice. I think as a society, we need to cal…

Thoughtcrime came and went years ago. We are now entering the precrime era.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#293

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

craigsmansion wrote: post #265
lostjohnny wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't. Salem G. made a mistake in desiring to address a problem that is worth discussing, but did so with a hasty ill-conceived reaction constructed through gossip and hearsay. It shouldn't happen, but it does. The various publications should have checked their facts and performed due diligence, but something, anything MIT related is money in the bank right now. They sold out. Breaking down Salem for her mista…

If only so much goodwill were extended to everyone we would not have reached this insane situation.

EDIT - I see that she is an adult with a job. I hope RMS sues and gets some damages. Defamation should have consequences.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#294

Post by ralfd »

foldr wrote: post #238
lliamander wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Thoughtcrime" here refers to the mere expression of taboo opinions, independent of a person's actual behavior towards others. It seems to be the case that Stallman did engage in inappropriate behavior - which perhaps should have been dealt with differently by CSAIL, MIT, the FSF board etc. The appropriate response may very well have been to ask for his resignation. But those behaviors are not why he was asked to res…

People in public positions have always had to be careful about what they say. It really lowers the quality of discussion to talk about "thought crime" in this context. Stallman isn't being thrown into prison for expressing his political views. He's being fired from his job (to the extent that it is a job) for making ill-judged and offensive comments. > It seems the real reason he was fired was because he expressed a…

Do you think RMS argument is wrong here though? Why?

Age of consent in my (European) country is 16. Do you think we are all rapists here? And looking up the law 14 is permissible (with a few caveats), even if the other person is over 21.

In the United States it depends on the state. So Minsky would have done a horrible rape crime in the US Virgin Islands (age of consent 18), but in Massachusetts (age of consent 16) ... it would be all perfectly fine and A-okay? This appeal to law seems a bit relativistic for making a moral judgement?

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#295

Post by ralfd »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #260
4bpp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe he has alienated more women from FOSS than he has inspired people to contribute to it? Considering the frankly extremely low percentage of female contributors, it seems that he would have had to personally (considering that all of the creepy behaviours listed seem to be limited to his meatspace circles) alienate multiple women for every one woman who did wind up working on in free software, which seems…

> Do you believe he has alienated more women from FOSS than he has inspired people to contribute to it? If I save a hundred lives as a doctor and then murder one person, does the calculus go in my favor?

> If I save a hundred lives as a doctor and then murder one person, does the calculus go in my favor?

It can be. A sharpshooter killing a terrorist and saving 100 lives would be lauded as a hero.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#296

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

lostjohnny wrote: post #268
craigsmansion wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't. Salem G. made a mistake in desiring to address a problem that is worth discussing, but did so with a hasty ill-conceived reaction constructed through gossip and hearsay. It shouldn't happen, but it does. The various publications should have checked their facts and performed due diligence, but something, anything MIT related is money in the bank right now. They sold out. Breaking down Salem for her mista…

Gavin McInnes is really a misogynist and founder of Vice. She's really building weapons for the US department of defense. I'm not doing anything, just doubting of her qualities as a spoke person of a movement that targeted RMS for no reason other than ignorance (taking for granted that there isn't anything else behind it) If we can doubt Stallman as a leader, we can as well doubt Selam G. And I'm saying it because sh…

> Gavin McInnes is really a misogynist and founder of Vice.

He has been fired. I don't much care for people like him but he is not part of the problem with Vice.

> She's really building weapons for the US department of defense

Can I get a link or reference for this? It is a big fact...

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#297

Post by rudnevr »

lostjohnny wrote: post #250
marijn wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't blacklisted for committing thought crime. The dumb Epstein email triggered a reevaluation of his consistent creepy and inappropriate behavior against current community standards, which resulted in a large part of the community deciding they didn't want anything to do with him anymore. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from social consequences.

[flagged]

What's wrong with building weapons for the US department of defense?

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#298

Post by bluecalm »

foldr wrote: post #238
lliamander wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Thoughtcrime" here refers to the mere expression of taboo opinions, independent of a person's actual behavior towards others. It seems to be the case that Stallman did engage in inappropriate behavior - which perhaps should have been dealt with differently by CSAIL, MIT, the FSF board etc. The appropriate response may very well have been to ask for his resignation. But those behaviors are not why he was asked to res…

People in public positions have always had to be careful about what they say. It really lowers the quality of discussion to talk about "thought crime" in this context. Stallman isn't being thrown into prison for expressing his political views. He's being fired from his job (to the extent that it is a job) for making ill-judged and offensive comments. > It seems the real reason he was fired was because he expressed a…

It doesn't suggest that age shouldn't be considered. It says the difference between 17 and 18 years old is minor. The justification is that depending on which country or even state within a country you're in you could be committing "rape" in one and not committing any crime in another. As rape is a word most people understand as awful violent crime it is absurd for it to depend on details like exact location where it takes place.

It could (and should) be called differently. If you call a consensual sex with 17 years old "rape" you're doing disservice to real rape victims.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#299

Post by madacoo »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #262
madacoo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this might be perfectly rational behaviour for people who care about some side of the cause I dispute this is rational. Creating echo chambers polarises and intensifies opposing viewpoints. The rational thing to do would be to engage in polite and meaningful discussion with people with whom you disagree. This would diffuse extreme opinions and allow people time to consider whether or not their position is justified…

Doubtful. Racism is way down since it became completely socially unacceptable to support among most social groups. This reminds me of The Racist Tree: https://lardcave.net/text/the_racist_tree.html > By Alexander Blechman > Once upon a time, there was a racist tree. Seriously, you are going to hate this tree. High on a hill overlooking the town, the racist tree grew where the grass was half clover. Children would vis…

I think you've conflated online downvoting behaviours with real life social conformity pressures, each of which probably have quite different effects on the propogation/extinction of certain beliefs.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#300

Post by malvosenior »

zaphirplane wrote: post #191
malvosenior wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This topic is uncomfortable and a lot of people stay out of it or strongly self censor. he didn’t. This is my point. As the president of an organization it’s not your job to make people uncomfortable about things that have nothing to do with that organization’s goals. Debating what is and is not statutory rape is not a discussion that should take place in any professional or technical environment. This instance is…

Rms is an extreme proponent of freedom, the GNU software aspect is part of his larger beliefs. While not a follower most of what I hear is him talking from a freedom angle. Censorship limits his freedom I can’t comment on the rest of your point because again you talk about the horror of the crime and it’s not clear what of what he said or did you find abhorrent

I said exactly what I find abhorrent. He should not have addressed this topic at all.
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