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Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

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Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#81

Post by pjc50 »

onion2k wrote: post #58
Iv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the political system in Chine does not collapse everyone should worry too. Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. I am of a boring old school of thought that thinks democracy is a pretty cool system and that it should be preserved. I really hope the Chinese political system collap…

...I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. Western nations have plenty of authoritarianism already. It's just more insidious and under the surface. For example, here in the UK there are CCTV cameras everywhere [1]. They're all linked up so the police can remotely follow citizens around towns, along roads, down motorways, etc. Every bus and train has CCTV on it.…

It's a very long way from China in terms of control, though. But more than the CCTV you should be worried about the combination of unusual constitutional maneuvering plus state-of-emergency planning associated with Brexit.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#82

Post by StreamBright »

Iv wrote: post #75
StreamBright wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of recorded human history China was the #1 economic power though.

And?

>> Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control.

For one, China has been the #1 economic power in the world longer than any other country.

Second, they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. How many interventions the US committed in the last 70 years with the approval of the UN? This is exactly the difference between China vs the Western world. They do not force their views on you. This is why they are much more successful in Africa than any Western country ever will be. It is spelled out in the documentary "The Chinese are coming".

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#83

Post by UIZealot »

tarsinge wrote: post #80

As a French the amount of (bad) news regarding China on American websites I browse (hn, reddit, newspapers websites...) is really disturbing compared to home. I try to think rationally but the coincidence with the trade war is hard to ignore. As an outsider it looks like nothing has changed (China is a communist country, fresh news!) but suddenly the media is all over it. The media pattern now is so obvious every tim…

And any time there's an article about China, people who knows nothing about China, besides that it's ruled by the communist party, comes out of the woodwork to take a dump on China.

People look down on Trump and ridicule him endlessly when he spews bullshit about things he knows nothing about. But if you spew bullshit about China, you get lots of upvotes.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#84

Post by 88840-8855 »

jacobush wrote: post #62
88840-8855 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatic political reforms, similar to what happened in 1991 when the Soviet Union "collapsed". Corruption would skyrocket, Oligarchs would emerge from the state owned enterprises, HK would declare independence, inner Mongolia, Tibet, Xinjiang, probably Yunnan would follow. Flows of money, including taxes, would be interrupted, people wont get paid. State owned enterprises would not be able to pay their people, the b…

So, you want war, or you want war? Nice choice we have.

I doubt that. People all around the globe want prosperity. Prosperity derives from an expanding economy. An economy can only grow if there is stability that allows to plan and forecast to allow efficient resource allocation and utilisation.

War is chaos. War destroys supply chains. War is standing in direct contrast to planability.

Nobody wants war.

Just look at Russia and its behaviour after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 1991-2000 was pure shit: chaos, corruption, high suicide rates, absolute poverty where poor old Grandmas and Grandpas suffered and committed suicide as there was absolutely nothing. In the early 2000s reforms were made that brought certain stability back to the country. Unfortunately, the economy was depending on resource exploitation - and the government knew that ofc. They tried to open up and integrate themselves into the global economy, e.g. by suggestion to join the NATO (for more stability and less spending on the military) and to join the EU (for better integration into the European markets). The Western nations said no to both suggestions. This is where the wars began: Georgia, North Kaukasus, Ukraine and now Syria.

My two cents: it was a huge bullshit made by the USA to 1) fuck the ex Soviet republics after the collapse in 91 - and yes, they had the option for a Marshall plan 2, and 2) to not integrate Russia into the Western military and economy. Shit for Russia, shit for the EU, shit for the US, shit for the global economy. Thanks again, USA.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#86

Post by pizza234 »

StreamBright wrote: post #82
Iv wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And?

>> Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. For one, China has been the #1 economic power in the world longer than any other country. Second, they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. How many interventions the US committed in the last 70 years with the approval of the U…

> they do not spread their views unlike the Western world.

I'm not sure if with "unlike" you imply that they [China] doesn't do it at all, or not as much as others [US].

In the first case, the argument is wrong. China is using economical leverage to impose its political agenda. See, for example: https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#87

Post by friendlybus »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #57
Animats wrote: post #42

The increase in pork prices is due to a swine fever epidemic that started in Liaoning province.[1] SCMP has a reasonably good article. China's huge boom is starting to level off. Down from 10%/yr to 7% a year. The US is under 3%/yr. That happened to all the "Asian tigers", as they caught up to the developed world. Its a long way from a recession. [1] https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3020488/c...

The problem in China is that they're likely to get old before they get rich. China's GDP per capita is still only a quarter (or less) of Japan, Singapore or South Korea: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/china/japan

They've said that every decade since ww2. I think China will have to pay off the US for their misdeeds, but they have built a valuable step in their progress in the world. They can go explore a new social role with their influence in the south china sea and with the BRI.

I would be concerned about China in the 2030s and 2040s.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#88

Post by StreamBright »

pizza234 wrote: post #86
StreamBright wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control. For one, China has been the #1 economic power in the world longer than any other country. Second, they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. How many interventions the US committed in the last 70 years with the approval of the U…

> they do not spread their views unlike the Western world. I'm not sure if with "unlike" you imply that they [China] doesn't do it at all, or not as much as others [US]. In the first case, the argument is wrong. China is using economical leverage to impose its political agenda. See, for example: https://sentinel.tw/norway-one-china-policy .

"The Norwegian government reiterates its commitment to the One China Policy, fully respects China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, attaches high importance to China’s core interests and major concerns, will not support actions that undermine them, and will do its best to avoid any future damage to the bilateral relations."

I guess this is what you are referring to. It is called diplomacy. You apply diplomatic pressure on the other party until you reach a resolution. In this case Norway ok with One China.

On the other end there is the rule of petro dollar and the US military in case you do not understand that you cannot question it. List of countries severely impacted[1]: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Russia

This is what I meant by the differences between the Western world vs China. Maybe I was too vague.

Here is the complete list of countries where the US committed some sort of intervention[2]. This includes shooting down airliner, invading countries without declaring war, financially supporting terrorist, supporting terrorists with arms, and so on.

This is what I see the fundamental difference between China and the Western world (more specifically USA), Chinese are not trying to overthrow any government or support any terrorists, they want to do business. As somebody put it nicely: "China's business is business, USA's business is war"

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare

2. https://www.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-...

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#89

Post by imtringued »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #57
Animats wrote: post #42

The increase in pork prices is due to a swine fever epidemic that started in Liaoning province.[1] SCMP has a reasonably good article. China's huge boom is starting to level off. Down from 10%/yr to 7% a year. The US is under 3%/yr. That happened to all the "Asian tigers", as they caught up to the developed world. Its a long way from a recession. [1] https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3020488/c...

The problem in China is that they're likely to get old before they get rich. China's GDP per capita is still only a quarter (or less) of Japan, Singapore or South Korea: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/china/japan

You didn't adjust for purchasing power parity. It's closer to 40% of Japanese GDP (PPP adjusted).

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#90

Post by barry-cotter »

philipov wrote: post #51
friendlybus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GLF was terrible, but the west shares a shame in throwing away our intellectual and cultural pursuits. There's an argument that a very long time ago, the islamic intellectual tradition preserved enlightenment values whilst we were off doing other things. I don't know the gritty details of the argument, so I'd be the first to say I'm wrong.

I think you mean they preserved Greek and Roman knowledge, which was the basis of the Renaissance. The Enlightenment was a few hundred years later, and consisted of new ideas.

They didn’t just preserve Greek and Roman knowledge. Averroes, Avicenna, the Mutazilites, al-Razi, Maimonides, al-Farabi and others made enormous and original contributions to philosophy, medicine, chemistry and other fields. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment would have been unrecognizably different without the contributions of the thinkers of the Islamic world.
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