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Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

spiegel.de

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Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#31

Post by hrktb »

dschuetz wrote: post #15

Is there any possible modern approach to a traditional catholic monastery? I think, they are dying out, because of their rigid traditions which rarely make sense in our modern world anymore. The idea of a monastery is to dedicate yourself completely to introspection and philosophy, and serving the monastery with its inhabitants, no matter what religion or philosophy. Why are they having so much trouble to keep up wit…

Our western societies fundamentally value extroversion, exchanging with the world and participate in the group. A monastry is the opposite.

It worked when praying for the world was largely accepted as having some effect. Nowadays thoughts and prayers doesn’t cut it for the general population.

In a way high level research institutes could be seen as the new monastries, with people shutting down in buildings everyday, searching for new truths that could benefit mankind.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#32

Post by ironic_ali »

factsaresacred wrote: post #25
dschuetz wrote: post #15

Is there any possible modern approach to a traditional catholic monastery? I think, they are dying out, because of their rigid traditions which rarely make sense in our modern world anymore. The idea of a monastery is to dedicate yourself completely to introspection and philosophy, and serving the monastery with its inhabitants, no matter what religion or philosophy. Why are they having so much trouble to keep up wit…

> I think, they are dying out, because of their rigid traditions which rarely make sense in our modern world anymore. Living a monastic life has never been appealing to the broad population. But to say that an ascetic life devoted to introspection doesn't 'make sense' is misguided. The modern world in predominately a sedentary lifestyle spent between a cube and a couch, interspersed with frenzies of gluttony, consump…

> predominately a sedentary lifestyle spent between a cube and a couch, interspersed with frenzies of gluttony, consumption and mindless distraction to stave off feeling of emptiness.

> Nothing could make less sense.

Speak for yourself...

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#33

Post by mgnn »

The Concent of Saunt Leibniz.

We can try turning old monasteries into concents à la Neal Stephenson's Anathem. People can go for a year in a unarian math to just study. Maybe a four consecutive years in such a math get equivalent recognition to a university degree. Whether it is the traditional monastic discipline or the Cartasian discipline, the required basic infrastructure is probably similar. Jeejahs stay outside, of course.

Particularly determined professors can populate a decennarian, maybe even a centenarian. Also, isn't there only about 9 years before our scheduled visit by the Icosahedron?

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#34

Post by fluffything »

gambiting wrote: post #29
roel_v wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"from property" In my Dutch town, there are churches that have been converted to hotels, a night club, several bicycle parkings, an award-winning bookshop that promptly went bankrupt, an indoor playground and a slew of restaurants. Others are just torn down. It seems the church has a preference for the last, but many of the expensive ones to maintain (i.e., the ones they want to get rid of first) are monuments and ha…

In the meantime, Poland is not only building lots of new churches, it even builds new cathedrals adorned in gold[0]. Even the little town I'm from(only 20k population) has 3 churches, and they are all full of gold and it's common knowledge that the local priests are most likely one of the wealthiest people around. [0]This was only finished in 2004, and is the most disgustingly oppulent building I have ever seen: http…

That makes sense. Here in Germany, if you go to a church on easter, christmas, etc. you'd be surprised that most of the people in church are Polish immigrants and their German children.

I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#35

Post by gambiting »

fluffything wrote: post #34
gambiting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the meantime, Poland is not only building lots of new churches, it even builds new cathedrals adorned in gold[0]. Even the little town I'm from(only 20k population) has 3 churches, and they are all full of gold and it's common knowledge that the local priests are most likely one of the wealthiest people around. [0]This was only finished in 2004, and is the most disgustingly oppulent building I have ever seen: http…

That makes sense. Here in Germany, if you go to a church on easter, christmas, etc. you'd be surprised that most of the people in church are Polish immigrants and their German children. I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here.

Because Poland has a long and complicated history with the Catholic church. For a lot of people, the Catholic Church represented the only oasis of freedom during the communist rule after WW2 and before 1989, and can be credited with accelerating the end of communism in Poland, especially with a Polish pope being elected merely a decade earlier.

Nowadays though I would call it what it is - it's cancer growing unchecked on the Polish state. And I don't mean the religion - I mean the Catholic Church of Poland is constantly meddling in Politics, influencing new policies, Polish bishops are almost celebrities with a huge amount of wealth, the church does not pay taxes, they are one of the largest land owners in Poland....it's a frightening insitution that only seems to be growing in strength, you'd think young people would turn away from it, but with the current right-wing government literally saying that those who don't defend the church are not real Poles it's quite obvious what the party line is - either you are with the church or you are not welcome.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#36

Post by badpun »

fluffything wrote: post #34
gambiting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the meantime, Poland is not only building lots of new churches, it even builds new cathedrals adorned in gold[0]. Even the little town I'm from(only 20k population) has 3 churches, and they are all full of gold and it's common knowledge that the local priests are most likely one of the wealthiest people around. [0]This was only finished in 2004, and is the most disgustingly oppulent building I have ever seen: http…

That makes sense. Here in Germany, if you go to a church on easter, christmas, etc. you'd be surprised that most of the people in church are Polish immigrants and their German children. I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here.

> I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here.

Historical reasons basically.

For the most part of the past 200 years, Poles lacked their own independent country (first it was partitioned in 1795 by Russia, Prussia and Austria, then it gained indepenence in 1918 only to be again conquered by Soviet Union in 1945). During that time, Church and faith were one of the primary allowed (or at least tolerated by the occupants) expression of one's identity as a Pole - people were singing partiotic songs during masses, priests were leaders of the nationalist opposition (and frequently murdered for that) etc. Hence, historically Catholic Church means much more to Poles than to most other nations.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#37

Post by k__ »

The just have to stell themselves better.

Living in a monasteries is strongly coupled with a long and healthy life.

Most nuns look at least 10 years younger than they are.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#38

Post by usrusr »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #19
xxxpupugo wrote: post #12

> Religious orders in Germany are disappearing because so few people want to dedicate their entire lives to God anymore Is there anything weird about this? Entire life is a pretty hefty price to pay, what needs to be changed is religion itself, if it wants to find more new believers to keep itself from disappearing.

I honestly think the acceptance of homosexuality in the mainstream is having a huge influence. A hundred years ago when society would tell you that what you want to do is wrong - and you might even believe it yourself - then choosing a life as a priest or monk was a serious alternative. - You would have a way to paradise and nobody would question you not marrying. It is of course complete conjecture, although more an…

Absolutely. And I consider it a general principle, not limited to homosexuality at all: in preindividualistic times (pretty much coincides with preindustrial), if you were in any way unfit for the path laid out for you by birth, the monastery might be an option. Simple rules and low expectations (industrial armies often fill a similar role during peacetime). Getting into good terms with your imaginary friend would be mostly a rationalisation/excuse for bailing out.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#39

Post by pelasaco »

This phrase "Religious orders in Germany are disappearing because so few people want to dedicate their entire lives to God anymore." is not accurate at all. We have a lot of people wanting to dedicate their entire lives to God, but eventually not for the Catholic Church. It's 2019, 6% of the German population is Muslim, Spiegel!

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#40

Post by recursinging »

The village I live in has a "Kloster", with nuns making up about 15% of our population. The article is accurate in that the number of practicing nuns is sinking and certainly not sustainable.

Here they have diversified in a number of directions. There is a school, an old folks home, and a hotel. The picturesque location, combined with the historic buildings makes all these quite competitive, and successful. I'd go so far as to say the church here is thriving despite the declining popularity of dedicating your life to it.

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