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Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

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Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't necessarily mean the entire browser has to be closed. Right. I did say that #1 can be worked around. If you you you approach, you still get the Chromium/Chrome model, where you can't release the actual source to the binaries you ship, and worse yet others can't easily fork your "open-source" app while keeping the functionality or redistribute your binaries. > The page you linked clearly says that non-commer…

You are again spectacularly incorrect, this time about the relationship between the distribution of open source code and patent law. It is perfectly 100% legal to distribute uncompiled source code without a license to any related patents. After all, it's a description of the patented machine and not the machine itself, much like an ideal patent application. Where you run into trouble is distributing the compiled bina…

I didn't say anything about distributing source code. To a first approximation users download binaries, not source code (things like Gentoo and MacPorts are edge cases; very few users use either one, really) .

What I said is that the old Chrome model, wherein the official binaries ship H.264 and have a paid-for license, if adopted by Firefox, would have meant two things, as I understand:

1) If someone wants to take the Mozilla binaries and redistribute them (possibly with some simple changes like a different default theme or a default preferences file that whitelists some intranet sites or whatever) they have to pay for an H.264 license. Things like copying Firefox from your computer to your friend's computer would need you to have an H.264 encoder license, since you're creating a new encoder (now it happens that the license fee for that level of distribution is 0, so you're actually ok; just don't put that modified package on a public web site).

2) If someone wants to fork the Mozilla codebase and build a browser with equivalent functionality and distribute it, they have to pay for an H.264 license.

#2 there is precisely what GPLv3 is intended to prevent, by the way. Mozilla is licensed under GPLv2, so this would be within the letter of the license, but arguably not the spirit. Certainly we felt that it would not be within the spirit.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#122
post #34

This is a weak article. > It's called bait and switch. Not really. If anything, it's the eventual use of market power for profiteering. > But it would become another closed de facto standard, just like IE6. Huh? IE6 is a browser not a standard . > This is comparing apples and oranges. Flash is a plugin, This is splitting hairs and a straw man. The user does not care or typically doesn't differentiate between somethin…

> > But it would become another closed de facto standard, just like IE6. > Huh? IE6 is a browser not a standard.

If you don't understand why the article is correct, you really don't understand the topic. It's fine to disagree, but this statement demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge in the area.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#123

Quite simply, what most people are missing here is that Chrome is removing H.264. How does removing a capability of a browser enhance its capabilities? Its nice that they add WebM, but there is just no practical reason for removing H.264.

> Its nice that they add WebM, but there is just no practical reason for removing H.264.

They don't want to support H.264. You can add an H.264 plugin, but they don't want to support it internally.

Put another way: Why should Apple be required to support Flash if they don't want to?

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#124
post #54
post #34

This is a weak article. > It's called bait and switch. Not really. If anything, it's the eventual use of market power for profiteering. > But it would become another closed de facto standard, just like IE6. Huh? IE6 is a browser not a standard . > This is comparing apples and oranges. Flash is a plugin, This is splitting hairs and a straw man. The user does not care or typically doesn't differentiate between somethin…

> But it would become another closed de facto standard, just like IE6. Huh? IE6 is a browser not a standard. Well, neither can H.264 be a standard, it is a non-free codec for video. The key was de facto.. Internet Explorer 6, at the peak of its dominance, became the standard that many web developers developed for. Even though it wasn't a standard, when it had over 90% of the market, it was often the only browser that…

> IE6 is a browser not a standard.

Look up "de facto standard" please.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#125
post #61
post #29

You know what we actually need? A h.264-buyout. Let's ask MPEG-LA how much they are planning to earn by the time their licence runs out (2024?). It will probably be ~200 Million or so. Then ask the whole internet to chip in. Result: all the open source people are happy, and we all get to use the higher quality codec in any application we can imagine. And we also get to keep our devices with their battery efficient de…

> Then ask the whole internet to chip in. And enable them? Let them become irrelevant.

Well they did valuable work. It's only the MPEG-LA that's acting badly. In fact, one should probably bypass the MPEG-LA and talk directly to the patent holders.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#126
post #4

As a rant this was mediocre, as a rebuttal this was lame.

It's not a rant. It cleanly refutes the Ars Technica article.

No rebuttal was really needed because most of the AT article was a red herring. The question is about openness, and h264 fails at that.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#127

The main problem with WebM/VP8 vs. H.264, especially in the face of the mobile internet device explosion, is hardware acceleration. Once devices start coming with native WebM acceleration, it won't be an issue. Given that Android is so popular and Google is looking to abandon H.264, it's inevitable that hardware acceleration will come to phones, probably in conjunction with H.264 acceleration (just like H.264 and H.2…

Most hardware will soon have webm support. All future Android devices, for example.

Re: Google's dropping H.264 in Chrome is not a step backward for openness.

#128
post #51

I'm actually curious about the differences in the formats. Is H.264 a better format? If so, does that mean that the web will always choose "free" over quality, if so, is there any incentive to create better embedded technologies, if a "free" albeit technically worse "knockoff" is available regardless of how open the other tech is, simply because it wants to be compensated when used by commercial entities that plan to…

H264 is a closed format owned by an industry cartel.

Webm is an open format owned by an open-source project.

The web ALWAYS needs to choose open over everything else, because that's the whole foundation of the web.

You want people to create html knockoffs? CSS knockoffs?

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