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Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

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Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#21

Post by jaynetics »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #12
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that have survived communism just accept high levels of corruption because it's better than the alternative. That's why Putin is popular.

Putin is popular, because he's better than what was before (i'm speaking mostly of the old drunk). And also because he does stuff that a lot of russians actually like. A lot of people (mostly westeners) don't understand, that if someone gets back "historic russian territory" from a "neighbor" you don't really like, and noone can do anything about that, that's a good thing for Russia. It's bad for the neighbors, it's…

"but for Russia, it's a good thing."

Are you sure? Haven't the resulting sanctions damaged Russia's economic growth and increased prices for consumers?

I can see the geo-strategic value of Crimea, but for the ordinary Russian citizen, where is the positive effect?

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#22

Post by [deleted] »

missosoup wrote: post #16
onion2k wrote: post #2

If the political system in China collapses everyone should worry. That would likely result in a global economic crash the likes of which the world has never seen.

If the alternative is China going unchecked and eating the world. I'll take the economic crash. I grew up in poverty and I'd rather go back to poverty than live under a dystopian surveillance dictatorship.

[deleted]

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#23

Post by friendlybus »

devoply wrote: post #10
stretchwithme wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We have real Communists everywhere, they are called corporations, most people work for such government where once inside they are a number and a cog in a machine that tells them to cooperate and not compete. It was a stupid idea to take this corporate model and try to implement it on the scale of national governance and there is no fitness function to terminate it if it's not working as expected, i.e. everyone is not…

I don't understand what you mean. Corporations as a legal structure are built to compete & live or die, governments are not. The point of having political power is to control it for the sake of prosperity. Having a 'death clause' in your government worker's performance would mean you've failed as a political actor to get enough control to guarantee prosperity. That's a bigger threat to the gov than having useless employees. Controlled incompetence, plausible deniability, ect are all useful political tools. Not always needed, but they are still useful tools.

If you want a 'communist corporation', just give every employee shares. You don't need unions or whatever else. You could start a company right now that does that. Some big UK firms do a performance sharing scheme with everybody in the company, even cashiers. Granted it's not much money in real terms, but it's proof how flexible the corporate legal structure can be.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#24

Post by spectramax »

missosoup wrote: post #16
onion2k wrote: post #2

If the political system in China collapses everyone should worry. That would likely result in a global economic crash the likes of which the world has never seen.

If the alternative is China going unchecked and eating the world. I'll take the economic crash. I grew up in poverty and I'd rather go back to poverty than live under a dystopian surveillance dictatorship.

I want to imagine the world with China as a democracy only to assure the world that xenophobia is the first thing that comes to mind when people take an anti-China stance and as a reminder that Chinese culture, their arts, the land and the people are wonderful. I am against this dystopian overwhelmingly powerful and suppressive government.

I imagine if 1989 was a turning moment for Democracy in China.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#25

Post by StudentStuff »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #12
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that have survived communism just accept high levels of corruption because it's better than the alternative. That's why Putin is popular.

Putin is popular, because he's better than what was before (i'm speaking mostly of the old drunk). And also because he does stuff that a lot of russians actually like. A lot of people (mostly westeners) don't understand, that if someone gets back "historic russian territory" from a "neighbor" you don't really like, and noone can do anything about that, that's a good thing for Russia. It's bad for the neighbors, it's…

Citation for that last paragraph?

All I've seen is a shrinking coal industry leaving workers unpaid for their last month on the job[1], 25% tariffs slapped on our hardware imports [2] (causing a 30% drop in our sales) and kids being killed by Customs and Border Protection [3].

None of this is good for the USA or my fellow American

1 - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/us/kentucky-coal-miners.h...

2 - https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2019/08/07/the-long-term-im...

3 - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/20/migrant-chil...

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#27

Post by JumpCrisscross »

friendlybus wrote: post #23
devoply wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have real Communists everywhere, they are called corporations, most people work for such government where once inside they are a number and a cog in a machine that tells them to cooperate and not compete. It was a stupid idea to take this corporate model and try to implement it on the scale of national governance and there is no fitness function to terminate it if it's not working as expected, i.e. everyone is not…

I don't understand what you mean. Corporations as a legal structure are built to compete & live or die, governments are not. The point of having political power is to control it for the sake of prosperity. Having a 'death clause' in your government worker's performance would mean you've failed as a political actor to get enough control to guarantee prosperity. That's a bigger threat to the gov than having useless emp…

> If you want a 'communist corporation', just give every employee shares

Co-operatives in this form aren’t communist. They compete for members, vendors and customers. They don’t have a monopoly on violence. They can be held accountable by the rule of law.

None of the above apply to communist governments. They have a monopoly on violence and the factors of production. That precludes an independent check on state power which, in turn, precludes the rule of law.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#28

Post by spectramax »

christkv wrote: post #19

I expect China to clamp down harder and harder on its population as well as deflect attention from it as the economy slides to try keep the party in power. Look for the social credit system to expand even more and also more rhetoric about it all being the fault of evil foreigners.

It is scary. Man's psychology is vulnerable and governments taking advantage of it can only end bad as history has taught us.

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#29

Post by varjag »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #6
stretchwithme wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People that have survived communism just accept high levels of corruption because it's better than the alternative. That's why Putin is popular.

Do dictators have to eradicate every slight manifestation of dissent and turn elections into rigged cargo cult shows because they are so popular?

Re: Life in China Is Getting Harder With High Prices

#30

Post by Iv »

onion2k wrote: post #2

If the political system in China collapses everyone should worry. That would likely result in a global economic crash the likes of which the world has never seen.

If the political system in Chine does not collapse everyone should worry too. Because they are very quickly becoming the #1 economic power in the world and I really do not want to see them spreading their views on authoritarianism and citizens control.

I am of a boring old school of thought that thinks democracy is a pretty cool system and that it should be preserved.

I really hope the Chinese political system collapses at one point. However we should not underestimate the reputation that has a system that tripled the average wage in the last 10 years.

Also I would not trust Bloomberg much outside their field of expertise.

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