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Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

1843magazine.com

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Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#101

Post by Smoosh »

rjurney wrote: post #96
CuriouslyC wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're falling into the classic trap of thinking doctors know everything, but sorry to say that's not even close to true. Most doctors know next to nothing about myofascial pain (even many that really should). I've seen multiple cases of mobility impairment and chronic pain that even well a respected orthopedic surgeon thought required surgery be corrected by aggressive bodywork, including trigger point myofascial re…

No, I read science myself. I’ve read hundreds of journal articles. I know the condition. I read pharmacology textbooks. You’re espousing hippiedom and it’s top comment because of left wing ignorance.

> left wing ignorance

Please don't be that guy.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#102

Post by H_Pylori »

cpncrunch wrote: post #87
GordonS wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand how, for some conditions, exercise could help, not just physically, but against the depressing effects of chronic pain. But absolutely not for all conditions. For too long, doctors have pushed graded exercise programs for essentially all chronic pain conditions, despite good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently , for some conditions (e.g. CFS). I personally suffer from chronic pain, caus…

>good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently, for some conditions (e.g. CFS). No, there is certainly no evidence that exercise can be permanently harmful for CFS. In fact, all the studies show that graded exercise is beneficial. It's certainly true that exercising too hard for too long can be detrimental and can cause a crash, and patients do need to be careful. Exercise certainly isn't a cure for CFS, and…

Another name for cfs is "systemic exertion intolerance disease". This alternative name never caught up, but it does describe the reality of the ilness quite accurately. Post exertional malaise is literally the defining symptom of cfs, so yes exercise in cfs makes you worse. You can tolerate some mild forms of exercise if you have a mild form of cfs, but that's about it. Also stop spreading lies, Simon Wessely's studies are deeply flawed, to say the least.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#103

Post by ozzmotik »

rjurney wrote: post #61
sdegutis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus did not take away my suffering. I asked him three times, and three times he said no. He said his grace is sufficient for me, because his power is made perfect in my weakness. I now understand why Jesus said no. Because he did not come to take away suffering, but to teach us how to endure it without failing ourselves or others.

The Fighting Jesus would mow your Jesus down with an AR. So spoke Bob Dobbs.

the true way to remove pain is to acquire sufficient slack.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#104

Post by ozzmotik »

sdegutis wrote: post #20

Although there is value in trying to removing pain when doing so would be ethical, this thread mentions many situations where there is pain but no possibility yet of removing or reducing it. In these cases, a long-term general solution is to continue research on these situations. But the short-term solution per person is to learn the meaning and value of suffering. It is frowned upon in intellectual forums to discuss…

i certainly appreciate what you have to say, but as a somewhat ardent atheist i contend entirely the idea that you absolutely have to understand and trust that Jesus came to suffer and die for our sake in order to get started on the right path, if only because there are several other religions across the world with their own disparate belief systems that have nothing to do with Jesus and im pretty sure some of those people came to the same point without accepting Jesus' suffering. so, if they can do so without it, then I think there is more than one way to do it, and certainly a secular way that doesn't require one to accept extraordinary claims without the requisite extraordinary evidence to back them up.

that being said, i would not ever want to try to convince someone who isn't interested in doing so to give up their faith, so please don't take this as a form of that. only trying to be intellectually fair and consider those outside of the situation you have represented.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#105

Post by anm89 »

This is a nonsensical premise to me masked by the fact that we use one phrase "chronic pain" to represent a huge range of experiences. And then because we have this one phrase we throw the other word cure in front of it like this semantic trick represents the possibility of achieving it.

I don't buy it. Chronic pain is a thousand different problems and I think it will be solved piece by piece by debugging those individual problems.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#106

Post by anm89 »

dghughes wrote: post #86

My dad has rheumatoid arthritis and is in constant pain. Even humeria doesn't help much. Now I have started waking up in the morning with hands so stiff I can barely make a fist. The pain doesnt bother me as much as the fear of being doped up on opioids. And the fact organ damage goes along with rheumatoid arthritis. And to top it off every nut around you says weed or some diet will cure you. It's always cure not mai…

Wow this really rings true for me. One of the most frustrating parts of chronic pain is the constant chorus of people explaining that yoga, or massage, or acupuncture, or crystals, or a no carbs diet will cure it.

Once in a while it would be great for someone to just respond "that sucks".

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#108

Post by oliwarner »

nate wrote: post #44

Tangent from the article, but when I read the headline I thought I'd at least share in case it helps anyone who might have chronic pain like I've dealt with lately. For years now I've been suffering from tons of weird shit. I've had this persistent painful skin rash that pops up all over my body. Steroids would kill it for awhile but it would always come back. Folks would ask me if I had burned myself when they'd see…

Every symptom there suggests you have an autoimmune condition with a dietary trigger.

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#109

Post by GordonS »

cpncrunch wrote: post #87
GordonS wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand how, for some conditions, exercise could help, not just physically, but against the depressing effects of chronic pain. But absolutely not for all conditions. For too long, doctors have pushed graded exercise programs for essentially all chronic pain conditions, despite good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently , for some conditions (e.g. CFS). I personally suffer from chronic pain, caus…

>good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently, for some conditions (e.g. CFS). No, there is certainly no evidence that exercise can be permanently harmful for CFS. In fact, all the studies show that graded exercise is beneficial. It's certainly true that exercising too hard for too long can be detrimental and can cause a crash, and patients do need to be careful. Exercise certainly isn't a cure for CFS, and…

It's not true to say there is no evidence[0-9].

The Cochrane review[10] that includes the PACE trial has also been beset with complaints about its methodology[11].

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334061/

[1] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/severely-af...

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19521443/

[3] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/bringsli-20...

[4] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/de-kimpe-20...

[5] https://www.nivel.nl/sites/default/files/bestanden/Rapport-d...

[6] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/eyssens-pem...

[7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28847166/

[8] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28805516/

[9] http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2...

[10] https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

[11] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6176540/

Re: Will there ever be a cure for chronic pain?

#110

Post by cpncrunch »

GordonS wrote: post #109
cpncrunch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>good evidence that it can be harmful, even permanently, for some conditions (e.g. CFS). No, there is certainly no evidence that exercise can be permanently harmful for CFS. In fact, all the studies show that graded exercise is beneficial. It's certainly true that exercising too hard for too long can be detrimental and can cause a crash, and patients do need to be careful. Exercise certainly isn't a cure for CFS, and…

It's not true to say there is no evidence[0-9]. The Cochrane review[10] that includes the PACE trial has also been beset with complaints about its methodology[11]. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21334061/ [1] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/severely-af... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19521443/ [3] https://huisartsvink.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/bringsli-20... [4] https://huisarts…

While it's true that patient surveys generally report worsening after GET, that isn't quite the same standard of evidence as a Cochrane review. The Cochrane review had similar conclusions in 2004, long before PACE [1].

A detailed survey by Action 4 ME found that of patients who reported undergoing GET:

"11 Had NO professional input (had they therefore paced themselves ?) – mostly with positive outcomes 6 Were supervised by occupational therapists – all with negative outcomes 3 Had been sent to the gym- all negative outcomes!" [2]

When GET is done properly, it generally involves reducing activity first of all if the patient is already overdoing it, reducing stress, replacing stressful with non-stressful activity, using heart rate monitors, etc.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15266475

[2] http://web.archive.org/web/20071019011737/http://www.afme.or...

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