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Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

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41–50 of 115 posts

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#41
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you put "prevent tyranny" in quotes, like it's not believable.

You seriously think a bunch of citizens with long guns is going to be able to prevent tyranny by the greatest military force the world has ever known?

First, there's a deterrent effect. 300M guns (not spread out evenly, it looks like there's a power law distribution going on) is simply not ignorable. Nor is the culture that has them ignorable; these people are significantly better prepared than the usual resistance minority . . . the kind that has been know to hold out for decades against really well funded, state-sponsored opponents.

Doesn't mean they're on your particular side, though :-)

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#42

> And the information revealed that people in crisis regularly turn their pets over to an animal shelter. I don't know why I assumed they were visiting the animals at the shelter to try to find comfort when I read the headline. The idea of planning to surrender your beloved pet before committing suicide is heartbreaking.

More heartbreaking would be if the pets of these suicide owners die of starvation over a period of terrifying, lonely days. It's more heartwarming, if anything, that a person who wishes to end their suffering still holds empathy and respect for the living.

I too have much compassion for animals, but idea of a human being preparing for taking his or her own life in turning over a pet is, in my heartfelt opinion, a much more poignant occasion.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam beat the US. The Taliban is beating the US. The US was founded when farmers used guerrilla warfare tactics against the current world superpower. South America guerrillas are unbeatable. It's really your position that is untenable.

I think that GP's position is tenable if the tyranny comes slowly. Sure, a country-wide armed insurgency is hard to beat. That's relatively uncontroversial. If most people are comfortable as the water boils around them, however, then the armed insurgency is not going to be country-wide. I think that argument has some basis in history (e.g. Nazi Germany), where the tyrannical government slowly got worse and worse with…

I don't think the GP's position has anything to do with slowly implemented tyranny; the GP is only referring to once the ragtag group has formed, and assessing their chances of success.

I think that what you describe as the boiling frog scenario would be the best possible strategy for a government that is concerned about its policies being forcefully rejected if implemented all at once.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#44
post #22
post #12

One point about suicide prevention that I think deserves a little more mention: people who survive an attempt typically do not ever commit suicide [1]. Lifetime survival rates range across studies, but they hover around 90%. Of course, 10% is much higher than the general population rate for lifetime suicide completion rate, which is more like 0.01%, and things are complicated by severity of attempt (you’re more likel…

I've said it before, but really, assault rifles and bump stocks and what not are the complete wrong thing to focus on. Long guns kill practically _nobody_ compared to handguns. It's the best compromise ever: ban handguns, keep long guns fully legal. 2nd amendment supporters wanting to "prevent tyranny" and hunters still have their long guns, homicides and suicides (which comprise the overwhelming majority of gun deat…

It would be a bit thorny as LEO's operate with handguns and legitimate CCW's carry handguns, but you could definitely restrict them much more. I do agree that it mostly seems like a no-brainer compromise, handguns are not particularly militia nor hunting material.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#45
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you put "prevent tyranny" in quotes, like it's not believable.

You seriously think a bunch of citizens with long guns is going to be able to prevent tyranny by the greatest military force the world has ever known?

Depends on what you mean by prevent tyranny.

But there are numerous examples of fighting forces comprised of citizens with small arms and explosives making the mission long, bloody, and expensive for the US military.

Nearly every military conflict after Korea has been of this variety.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#46

> And the information revealed that people in crisis regularly turn their pets over to an animal shelter. I don't know why I assumed they were visiting the animals at the shelter to try to find comfort when I read the headline. The idea of planning to surrender your beloved pet before committing suicide is heartbreaking.

It's common for people intending to kill themselves to tie up loose ends and put their affairs in order. It's actually often listed as a warning signal of suicidal behaviour. Generally when people go they want to cause as little trouble for their loved ones as possible.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. The idea that a rag-tag group of citizens with a stockpile of AR-15s could challenge "tyranny" by fighting a modern US military is laughable.

Vietnam beat the US. The Taliban is beating the US. The US was founded when farmers used guerrilla warfare tactics against the current world superpower. South America guerrillas are unbeatable. It's really your position that is untenable.

The U.S. army, while preventing the North from encroaching, were effectively sitting ducks and as the casualties grew so did the anti-war tide at home, until they pulled out and the south was left to their demise. The North, then separated when the U.S. arrived, bordered China, their arms supplier, and had thick jungle cover from the Ho Chi Min trail all the way to the south. While the U.S. took some pot shots at the North through bombing missions they "officially" were never invading.

This was an impossible situation from the beginning.

> South America guerrillas are unbeatable.

Bolivian insurgency failed, Guevara died. They don't always win.

The thing of it is the arms involved at the outset are irrelevant. You can't coerce a population largely unwilling to be controlled. Arms (including bombing devices) inevitably make their way into peoples hands. In the event of martial law things would fall into such disarray it's unsustainable.

I take issue with the idea that a population needs to be armed a priori with a specific set of weapons in order to repel a "tyranical government", which is a kind of boogeyman idea if I ever heard one. A tyrannical govt, comprised of a minority of people, versus the U.S. scenario is not a likely one. You'd sooner see a civil war, and even that's incredibly unlikely. But then I suppose you'd see gun regulation as evidence of tyranny.

The most tyrannical govt I can think of is the Chinese one and they have popular favor with their people. The HK situation shows that popular dissent is powerful with or without weapons.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam beat the US. The Taliban is beating the US. The US was founded when farmers used guerrilla warfare tactics against the current world superpower. South America guerrillas are unbeatable. It's really your position that is untenable.

I think that GP's position is tenable if the tyranny comes slowly. Sure, a country-wide armed insurgency is hard to beat. That's relatively uncontroversial. If most people are comfortable as the water boils around them, however, then the armed insurgency is not going to be country-wide. I think that argument has some basis in history (e.g. Nazi Germany), where the tyrannical government slowly got worse and worse with…

That came to mind as well. We're taking for granted here that much of the population was drinking the kool-aid when the Nazis took power; there wasn't, say, very popular dissent. And that's a more realistic scenario with a tyrannical power. I can't imagine one, at least a domestic one, that manages to hold on to tyranny despite the large part of the population wanting them out. With or without weapons.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously think a bunch of citizens with long guns is going to be able to prevent tyranny by the greatest military force the world has ever known?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising There are sparse (sparse because guns in history are rarely found among civilians) instances of people using arms to defend themselves against overwhelming state adversaries. Dictators may be cruel but they're not exactly trying to rack up police casualties.

The case you cite is illustrative of the point that it doesn't tend to work, though.

> A total of 13,000 Jews died, about half of them burnt alive or suffocated. German casualties were probably less than 150.

Re: Suicide Data Reveal New Intervention Spots, Such as Motels and Animal Shelters

#50
post #44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said it before, but really, assault rifles and bump stocks and what not are the complete wrong thing to focus on. Long guns kill practically _nobody_ compared to handguns. It's the best compromise ever: ban handguns, keep long guns fully legal. 2nd amendment supporters wanting to "prevent tyranny" and hunters still have their long guns, homicides and suicides (which comprise the overwhelming majority of gun deat…

It would be a bit thorny as LEO's operate with handguns and legitimate CCW's carry handguns, but you could definitely restrict them much more. I do agree that it mostly seems like a no-brainer compromise, handguns are not particularly militia nor hunting material.

Doesn't seem that difficult, don't LEOs already have access to equipment that isn't legal for civilians? And I think the assumption is that legitimate CCWs would no longer be able to carry handguns.
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