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Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

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Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#31

Post by quickthrower2 »

scarejunba wrote: post #15

There's also the beauty in the point of Free Software: it's for freedom. This means it's okay that others profit. It's about you having power. That means you have the power to profit too. All you gotta share is the code for what you distribute. I like free software not because no one is making money. I like people making money. I like it because I can change it. That's important and everyone who gets upset simply bec…

What I could never get my head around when reading about free software is how can people, especially individuals or small companies make money making free software. Sure you can sell it but then the buyer is free to sell it for half the price.

One way is if the software is a marketing tool for selling something else. Then people sharing or using it is good for marketing the other service.

Another way is if the product is useless to the customer base in source form so they need to buy the compiled version, and aren’t technical enough to do it themselves.

But in general making software to sell needs a propitery license if you want to make money.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#32

Post by zapzupnz »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #28
zapzupnz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem that he's being defended purely based on some cult of celebrity. HN would vilify any other group for doing the same thing for anybody else.

Some people are sympathetic for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with some cult of celebrity , like being generally fed up with shitty, hypocritical puritanical BS out in the world generally. That would include me, which is why I'm speaking up: Your comment smears me, though I'm sure you didn't think you were talking about me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said anything. I think rehashing this instead of actua…

> Generally fed up with shitty, hypocritical puritanical BS out in the world generally

> Your comment smears me, though I'm sure you didn't think you were talking about me

So hang on, you're happy to say that you are leaping to his defence because you're sick of some abstract concept against which you rally instead of the facts of the matter, his past pattern of behaviour, and the complaints that have been made themselves?

That's worth a laugh. He's innocent enough to warrant defending because you interpret that a lot of people in unrelated cases take things too far. Gotcha.

That's not a defence; if anything, me thinking it was just based on a cult of celebrity was me being kind and giving a supposed unintended audience (you included, so you tell me) the benefit of the doubt which you've admitted to not deserving.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#33

Post by ryeights »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #16
jnwatson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just because he happens to be the president of an organization means he can’t defend his colleague on an unrelated private message board? The chilling effect of such a policy essentially means that all advocacy groups must be led by slick marketing politicians, always on-point and on-brand, even if off camera.

"an unrelated private message board?" Was this an unrelated private message board? I was under the impression it was on a mailing list at MIT.

The list is semi-private, CSAIL-affiliated students and faculty only

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#34

Post by DoreenMichele »

zapzupnz wrote: post #32
DoreenMichele wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are sympathetic for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with some cult of celebrity , like being generally fed up with shitty, hypocritical puritanical BS out in the world generally. That would include me, which is why I'm speaking up: Your comment smears me, though I'm sure you didn't think you were talking about me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said anything. I think rehashing this instead of actua…

> Generally fed up with shitty, hypocritical puritanical BS out in the world generally > Your comment smears me, though I'm sure you didn't think you were talking about me So hang on, you're happy to say that you are leaping to his defence because you're sick of some abstract concept against which you rally instead of the facts of the matter, his past pattern of behaviour, and the complaints that have been made thems…

So hang on, you're happy to say that you are leaping to his defence because you're sick of some abstract concept against which you rally rather than the facts of the case himself?

There is nothing whatsoever abstract about the things I'm tired of.

This is neither the time nor place to rehash my criticisms. It wouldn't do any good anyway.

My previous comment was For the record. I don't intend to hash it out with you further in this thread.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#35

Post by harshreality »

grawprog wrote: post #19
sn41 wrote: post #7

In the years to come, I believe free software will be recognised as one of the paradigmatic changes in how science itself is done. Now chemists and biologists have started talking about making data openly available and so forth. It's a shame that RMS has to spout forth on every issue, and in the current climate of outrage, science may have lost an important transformational voice. I think as a society, we need to cal…

One of the things that really soured me to working as a biologist was being told the data we collected would not be allowed to be made freely available, as we originally proposed and was accepted in our grant proposal. Instead it would be locked away in a government database, available for a fee despite the data being collected using tax dollars, after we'd been working for over a year and a half on the project and h…

What the hell? What mine and what endangered species?

Why the hell is my government hiding this data?

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#36

Post by [deleted] »

Frondo wrote: post #11
sn41 wrote: post #7

In the years to come, I believe free software will be recognised as one of the paradigmatic changes in how science itself is done. Now chemists and biologists have started talking about making data openly available and so forth. It's a shame that RMS has to spout forth on every issue, and in the current climate of outrage, science may have lost an important transformational voice. I think as a society, we need to cal…

The complaints about stallman aren't a matter of thoughtcrime, they're a matter of entirely inappropriate behavior, not just once but repeatedly, over the course of decades. This was the one that disturbed me the most: "Going to an RMS talk in the early 90s and meeting with him in person was among the worst of my experienced - I was fifteen, still obviously underage, and skipping gym class to hear him speak at a prof…

[deleted]

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#37

Post by zapzupnz »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34
zapzupnz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally fed up with shitty, hypocritical puritanical BS out in the world generally > Your comment smears me, though I'm sure you didn't think you were talking about me So hang on, you're happy to say that you are leaping to his defence because you're sick of some abstract concept against which you rally instead of the facts of the matter, his past pattern of behaviour, and the complaints that have been made thems…

So hang on, you're happy to say that you are leaping to his defence because you're sick of some abstract concept against which you rally rather than the facts of the case himself? There is nothing whatsoever abstract about the things I'm tired of. This is neither the time nor place to rehash my criticisms. It wouldn't do any good anyway. My previous comment was For the record. I don't intend to hash it out with you f…

> There is nothing whatsoveer abstract about the things I'm tired of

They're perfectly abstract if they pertain in no concrete way to the case at hand. You said yourself that your defence of RMS is down to your viewpoints about these concepts.

If you meant something else, you should have said something else — given that your reply to me was only to lecture me about what I was supposed to have meant.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#38

Post by michannne »

It seems this thread and others like it has fueled a controversial honeypot, as some users are mass-downvoting comments that are perfectly in line with the content posted, simply because they stand for or against ousting Stallman, and others are doing the opposite -- mass upvoting comments that align with their predisposed view of the situation.

I'd like to take sometime however to reiterate that freedom applies to all views. The ability of a user to use software regardless of their personal beliefs or background, what they want to use it for, or against. The choice of usage is completely and wholly up to the user, they may modify it to their heart's content, and the community can use those modifications freely for their purposes. Restricting viewpoints you don't align with is completely antithetical to the purpose of having free-as-in-speech software, and it is truly a shame, regardless of how you interpret the situation, that the poster-boy for these ideals has fallen from his position due to alternate views.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#39

Post by zaphirplane »

malvosenior wrote: post #4
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #3

That's what makes me so furious at the morons who deplatformed RMS over some silly devil's advocate defense of Minsky on an internal mailing list. The guy has an important idea that he put most of his life into developing. In the process, he made programming much more inclusive than anyone could dream about in the days of proprietary operating system with compilers that sold for thousands of dollars. So even if havin…

I don’t think that’s fair to those who had a problem with RMS. Him arguing about peodophilia on a mailing list does nothing at all to help his ideas spread. It takes quite a lot away in fact. What was the purpose of his argument? To defend his friend Minsky? Again, that does nothing to promote free software, it only adds unneeded and negative baggage. That’s bad leadership and bad for RMS’ message. Yes he had great i…

you are wording the sentences to create a vague wrong impression Of what transpired

Be specific about what he said that you find abhorrent

This topic is uncomfortable and a lot of people stay out of it or strongly self censor. he didn’t.

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