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Why American Mothers are Superior

thejuliagroup.com

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Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#11

Post by aresant »

I am amused that yesterday a top HN story was about the demise of internet advertising and the associated HN comments trend towards agreeing that ads are not effective:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2098301 and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2101163

Then today the top story is poking fun of "advertising words" which is an intellectualized kick in the face to the techniques that marketers use to draw you in.

And yet meanwhile we're all discussing for the 5th time the WSJ linkbait article on "Chinese Mothers" that exists for the sole purpose of promoting Amy Chao's book the "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" from which WSJ's original article was copy and pasted.

She arrived at #6 on Amazon's top sellers today.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#12

Post by gaoshan »

Herring wrote: post #7
angdis wrote: post #3

I'm convinced the original article by the Chinese mother was some kind of satire. I simply can't believe a reasonably intelligent person (a Yale prof!) can write that with a straight face-- the bit about not letting kids participate in school plays takes the cake.

Of course it's trolling, but people respond seriously because (apparently) this style of parenting is common.

>because (apparently) this style of parenting is common.

It is not common. Every Chinese mother I know (that would be quite a few) found the Amy Chua article to be repulsive. Just like the American moms did, except that they knew people would equate them with Chua's ideas so it makes them even angrier. My own wife (a Chinese mom) and her friends and relatives have been circulating the Chua article and talking about it and the consensus is a universal "WTF is wrong with this woman?!"

Then you read that the Wall Street Journal article was, at least to a certain extent, not representative of the actual tone of the book and you realize that this piece, so disliked by real Chinese mothers is an exaggeration of the whole phenomenon.

People like the mom in this linked article are responding to an exaggeration of a caricature (and should be aware of this, though, from their own defensive and annoyed tone I suspect are not) and it strikes a chord because people are too sensitive to perceived criticism of things that matter deeply to their psyches... like the job they do raising their kids.

So the WSJ takes an extreme point of view, exaggerates it to fit a caricature of a certain racial stereotype, people get annoyed at this mostly made up thing and start reacting angrily and the WSJ and those involved in the book make money off of the whole mess. Shameful.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#13

Post by grav1tas »

I found it sort of silly in both articles that they make a universal qualification, but then follow up their reasoning based on more or less anecdotal, personal evidence. Whether you're Chinese or American, it doesn't make you superior at all. What makes you superior is the direction and tone you take with your children based on who they are and who you are. Where this jingoistic element came in, I'm not really sure. Call me naive, but I think that China and America are both really big places that probably have many different cultures and families that take different approaches to raising children.

These labels don't advance the conversation much for me.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#14

Post by katovatzschyn »

marvinalone wrote: post #2

It reads like we're having a child-off between exceptionally gifted Chinese children, and exceptionally gifted American children. What about normal children? I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence.

> I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence.

Give it 20 years.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#15

Post by gwern »

grav1tas wrote: post #13

I found it sort of silly in both articles that they make a universal qualification, but then follow up their reasoning based on more or less anecdotal, personal evidence. Whether you're Chinese or American, it doesn't make you superior at all. What makes you superior is the direction and tone you take with your children based on who they are and who you are. Where this jingoistic element came in, I'm not really sure.…

You would think an actual statistician with a thesis in psychometrics would be able to do better than that, yeah. It's fine to talk about anecdotes and her experience as an employer and what not, but without the facts, it's like a dinner with only dessert.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#16

Post by dkl »

bhousel wrote: post #4

Also worth reading is The Last Psychiatrist's response to the Chinese mothers article: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/01/why_chinese_mothers_a...

I really love this guy's writing. He cuts through the layers of BS so well and exposes something closer to root causes better than anyone I've ever seen.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#17

Post by bioh42_2 »

marvinalone wrote: post #2

It reads like we're having a child-off between exceptionally gifted Chinese children, and exceptionally gifted American children. What about normal children? I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence.

I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence

That's not going to happen. This is a pissing contest between Olympic level pissers.

Me, I'd like to see these two families in a wrestling match - just the mothers and daughters obviously, the fathers don't seem to have much of a competitive streak.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#18

Post by cj »

marvinalone wrote: post #2

It reads like we're having a child-off between exceptionally gifted Chinese children, and exceptionally gifted American children. What about normal children? I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence.

You missed the point. There is no anecdotal evidence in this article.

She is trying to say that the difference between her kids and the chinese children are that her kids turned out to be "gifted" without pressure from her to succeed. Chinese children are "gifted" as a result of strict and never-satisfied parents. She's saying that if her children turned out to be just average, it sounds like she would be perfectly fine with that, as long as her kids were happy.

The main point of the article is that american kids are given more freedom to explore their true interests and aren't formed into the model ivy-league applicant.

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#19

Post by deniscales »

bioh42_2 wrote: post #17
marvinalone wrote: post #2

It reads like we're having a child-off between exceptionally gifted Chinese children, and exceptionally gifted American children. What about normal children? I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence.

I'd love to see these anecdotes turned into evidence That's not going to happen. This is a pissing contest between Olympic level pissers. Me, I'd like to see these two families in a wrestling match - just the mothers and daughters obviously, the fathers don't seem to have much of a competitive streak.

The American mom and daughter would win. She's a world class Judoka and her daughter won an Olympic Judo bronze medal and is going into MMA. Probably need a more neutral event then wrestling :)

Re: Why American Mothers are Superior

#20

Post by cafard »

Here's a proposal, and it may come from having just glanced at The Last Psychiatrist blog: this year, the HN Lenten penance will be "no postings about education." Nothing about American schools awful; nothing about American schools actually not awful; nothing about college admissions; nothing about Hd or Sd or M*T. No Michelle Rhee, no Gates Foundation.

Will it be good for your soul? Dunno, consult your local cleric. Will it be good for your mind? YMMV. It may not make you thinner, but it will make HN thinner.

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