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Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

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Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#121

Post by colechristensen »

WaxProlix wrote: post #100
colechristensen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes down to personality and biochemistry, not everyone is that hooked on the stuff. If you ban everything that is addictive you end up doing a disservice to people who can handle the substance or item in question. Banning addictive substances because some people can't handle them goes against my philosophy of the purpose of government. Do we need some kind of super-citizen test where you have to prove your knowl…

What's to stop research into super-heroin as a product in that world? Just come up with the most psyche-abusive substance possible and enjoy an army of essentially slaves. People with the notion that free will is some sort of absolute confuse the heck out of me. I guess sibling post is right, it's just an issue of fundamental worldview being different.

The government banning tobacco from sale is the same sort of free-will exercise by humans for humans as is me banning tobacco from my own body, just on different levels.

The government can just as well have "addiction" problems with things that are bad for the population which are supported by the population.

The difference isn't free-will or not, it is only the level on which it is applied.

I prefer personal free will to collective free will whenever it is possible and reasonable.

The purpose of government is to do things we can't do for ourselves. I can decide whether or not to use a substance which might be addictive or to abstain from it forever. The government can do that too but I really don't think they need to. They need to make sure that those kinds of products are sold pure and as expected, that there is accurate information about their usage and effects available, and that people selling them do not mislead or manipulatively hook people, but ultimately I would rather a responsible individual make decisions than a collective.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#123

Post by ThrustVectoring »

earlz wrote: post #79
sbilstein wrote: post #44

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me. Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you s…

I think the key with vaping (not necessarily with Juul though due to market availability) is that it's very easy to decrease the dosage of nicotine without reducing the fixation amount. For traditional cigarette smoking you want a high amount of nicotine to fill that void (and also to get through the other side of other addictive substances in tobacco beyond nicotine) and to effectively "get hooked" on vaping instead…

Nicotine's method of action for addiction isn't commonly understood very well. It's extremely specific - nicotine works to make the things you do around the exposure more habitual. If it's slapping on a nicotine patch and going on a run, you're more likely to get into a habit of slapping on a patch and going on a run. If it's taking a break outside and puffing from a vaporizer, then it's simply taking a break and puffing from a vaporizer.

That's largely why e-cigs are the most successful way to quit smoking tobacco products - it's the most similar habit to smoking cigarettes, so it slots into the existing highly-reinforced habits that smokers have. You drop a bunch of the random other chemicals that are present in cigarettes, and wind up reinforcing the replacement habit before dropping dosages and having a regular habit that's as easy to quit as, say, biting your fingernails.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#124

Post by sjg007 »

sbilstein wrote: post #44

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me. Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you s…

You could do a taper basically.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#125

Post by morpheuskafka »

Despegar wrote: post #112
numair wrote: post #73

True story: I have two very close younger friends who are practically my little brothers. They come from an established family in Hollywood, and have a very famous actor-dad. The younger brother is about 20 now, and is friends with half of the teen “influencers” on Instagram/YouTube; the older brother is about 22, and hangs with a group of LA kids who are obsessed with the movie American Psycho and dress/look the par…

Maybe you should relay this story to the FTC and the federal prosecutors so they can investigate this and bring Juul to justice.

Having a 19-year old investor/employee at a tobacco company isn't illegal. Not really sure what the prosecutors could glean from this in terms of hard evidence of a crime.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#126

Post by flattone »

uoaei wrote: post #119
appleshore wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should delete this, seems identifiable.

Shutting down an opportunity for whistleblowing against a company that knowingly preys on minors using the addictive properties of tobacco products -- because of potentially identifiable information -- seems ludicrous.

Avoiding being identified seems more like "do this but more carefully"?

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#127

Post by morpheuskafka »

t-writescode wrote: post #39
bsder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? There are non-nicotine pods. And they have all of the social addictiveness even if they don't have actual nicotine in them.

if there’s no nicotine, then who cares? Magic the Gathering cards and pogs were addicting back in the day, but kids could still buy them.

I do not think you can develop a physiological dependence to Magic the Gathering cards. Additionally, the cards do have some market value, so it was more of a poor use of money than throwing money away.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#128

Post by simplecomplex »

ganitarashid wrote: post #116

Vaping under 18, I get it, you’re young and dumb and succumbed to peer pressure. It happened to the best of us. But vaping after 30? It’s like they’re saying: Hey I want you to take me seriously while I am willfully destroying my body in front of you. If you don’t care about yourself, you can’t be trusted to care about anything.

Okay. But there's a double standard when it comes to food. Why do fat people get a pass? Why is it legal to eat cheeseburgers and drink soda? The health risks from obesity are statistically just as bad as smoking. It's the leading cause of preventable death in the US. 1/3 of America is obese. It's a larger problem than smoking, statistically.

I don't smoke or vape. But it's a glaring double standard. McDonalds can market to kids, lure them with toys, and people who are 300+ lbs are allowed to eat whatever they want, as much as they want.

Why is it legal for parents to feed a 12 year old Cheetos and Pepsi? It's just as damaging health wise. In my city's public school there are teenagers who have gout. Yet nobody cares.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#129

Post by joncrane »

kube-system wrote: post #83
Enginerrrd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is itself a carcinogen. But in general, smokeless tobacco products (including vaping) are much less damaging to your health than smoking.

I don't think nicotine has been shown to be carcinogenic in humans, although there's plenty of other bad things it does.

Nicotine stimulates Growth Hormone release and GH is linked to some cancers.

For sure many tumors respond much more intensely to GH than normal tissue. Much in the same way estrogen makes some breast cancers grow faster. So it has a carcinogenic effect, and once the cancer starts, nicotine turbocharges it. (Depending on the cancer, of course).

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#130

Post by Kudos »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #125
Despegar wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should relay this story to the FTC and the federal prosecutors so they can investigate this and bring Juul to justice.

Having a 19-year old investor/employee at a tobacco company isn't illegal. Not really sure what the prosecutors could glean from this in terms of hard evidence of a crime.

> Not really sure what the prosecutors could glean from this in terms of hard evidence of a crime.

That's why it's called an investigation, you follow leads not knowing whether they will pay off.

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