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Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

latimes.com

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Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#81

Post by abbirdboy »

airstrike wrote: post #33
abbirdboy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to some of the other comments: Leukocytes (immune cells) such as B and T cells will undergo "education" when they are developing. For example, B cells, before being released, will go through something called central tolerance in the bone marrow. If the B cell receptors bind a "self" antigen (markers that are associated with our own cells) while developing, it will go through negative selection and be destroyed…

Thanks for this. I'm perpetually amazed at how mind-bogglingly complex the human body is. > while developing, it will go through negative selection and be destroyed Can you share more about how this process works? Even just a link would do. Thank you!

I think Khan Academy does a good job of explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsQyCHs4IBY

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#82

Post by diag »

paggle wrote: post #77
robohoe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s supposedly dead [0]. https://www.vnews.com/Man-Convicted-of-Maiming-Vermont-Woman...

Cases like this are why torture should be a legal sentence for the worst crimes where guilt is not in doubt.

There's no ethical way to condone torture and the US Constitution is supposed to protect us from that.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#83

Post by paggle »

diag wrote: post #82
paggle wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cases like this are why torture should be a legal sentence for the worst crimes where guilt is not in doubt.

There's no ethical way to condone torture and the US Constitution is supposed to protect us from that.

There is no “one true ethics.” There are different methods of ethical reasoning, such as Categorical Imperative / Veil of Ignorance etc, and different conclusions that different people can make using these techniques. You can’t just say “there’s no ethical way to condone” torture/executions/meat-eating and make yourself infallible.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#84

Post by jiveturkey »

ravar wrote: post #56
zaroth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human brain is wired to make connections, but it's important to step back and realize the universe of "plausible" explanations are almost infinite. It is nothing more than rank speculation that these two stories are somehow related. The world is teeming with junk science like this, and it can be dangerous and even fatal. (E.g. anti-vexers). That's why I think it's important to recognize it when you see it, and ca…

The evidence is the podcast/interview. It is not known the extent to which generic drugs are affected. But in almost all the Indian plans investigated there was evidence of fraud, and I believe evidence of fraud was found in 80% of Chinese generic pharmaceutical plants. Additionally according to the author of the book there have already been cases of organ rejections due to fraudulent generics. Before dismissing my c…

I'm sorry but GP is completely correct and you are just reacting defensively.

He didn't claim that your evidence was faulty, but that there is nothing to connect these two stories. You're making a link that does not exist.

In fact, when you say

> It is possible that this is not what happened

you are making it seem quite likely that this is indeed what happened. With no supporting evidence.

It's exactly what anti-vaxers do.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#85

Post by zbentley »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #70
peterlk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished up an introductory biology lecture series, and this suddenly makes less sense to me than it did before. What is it about the foreign cells that is identified as foreign by the host cells? The cells ought to be remarkably similar. They're human, with the same function/pluripotency using the same protein interactions. So why attack it?

So why attack it? There is more in your body than just your cells. We are in the infancy of understanding stuff like this, but my WAG is that donor tissue can be rejected because it contains hostile microorganisms that didn't make the radar of the medical staff for whatever reason.

> donor tissue can be rejected because it contains hostile microorganisms

Citation? That sounds both convenient and implausible (medical science has a long way to go in many areas, but microscopy/microorganism detection is pretty far along).

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#86

Post by Medicalidiot »

Pete_D wrote: post #32
Medicalidiot wrote: post #7

This is to be expected. Any time we do any transplant immunosupressants are given to the recipient for the rest of their life, but this only slows the inevitable. Heart transplants recipients all get accelerated atherosclerosis. Lung transplant recipients all get long term fibrosis. We buy time with these procedures and do everything we can to keep them going, but if you have a transplant, you're in a really bad spot…

How much of this is mitigated by donor/recipient compatibility (haplotypes? is that the right word?)? Is there no such thing as a purely compatible donor?

There have been instances of kidney transplants between identical twins to withdraw immunosuppressants after some time.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#87

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

paggle wrote: post #78
chrshawkes wrote: post #55

This is a horrific story I wish I didn't read about. The husband only got a 30 to 70 year sentence for this??? He died in prison but this is a case for the death penalty all the way. This guy ended up dying of natural causes in prison. This woman is living a tortured existence and this guy gets 3 hots and a cot & cable TV until he dies. Disgusting.

The US “progressives” think much more about the poor murderers and their horrible lives in prison instead of the people they murdered.

That's a pretty dishonest take on the progressive view of criminal justice.

Rehabilitation is just as important, if not more so, than punishment. Simply locking someone in a cage for a few years does nothing to prevent recidivism. It often makes it worse, as once someone comes out of prison, it can be extremely difficult to find work (since employers discriminate against felons), causing them to turn back to a life of crime in order to survive.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#88

Post by bitwize »

peterlk wrote: post #12
Medicalidiot wrote: post #7

This is to be expected. Any time we do any transplant immunosupressants are given to the recipient for the rest of their life, but this only slows the inevitable. Heart transplants recipients all get accelerated atherosclerosis. Lung transplant recipients all get long term fibrosis. We buy time with these procedures and do everything we can to keep them going, but if you have a transplant, you're in a really bad spot…

I just finished up an introductory biology lecture series, and this suddenly makes less sense to me than it did before. What is it about the foreign cells that is identified as foreign by the host cells? The cells ought to be remarkably similar. They're human, with the same function/pluripotency using the same protein interactions. So why attack it?

It's no one thing, but a combination of factors that allow the immune system to identify and attack foreign cells that have entered the system. Think of it like one of those incredibly stupid algorithms that pass for AI today. Except this algorithm is "trained" over millions of years by the host organism dying when it fails to properly classify hostile foreign biomass. Over that long a time it gets to be pretty good, but not 100% flawless: autoimmune disorders like multiple sclerosis result when the immune system incorrectly attacks the body's own tissues, and allergies result when the immune system overreacts to foreign material, such as food or pollen, entering the body.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#89

Post by paggle »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #87
paggle wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US “progressives” think much more about the poor murderers and their horrible lives in prison instead of the people they murdered.

That's a pretty dishonest take on the progressive view of criminal justice. Rehabilitation is just as important, if not more so, than punishment. Simply locking someone in a cage for a few years does nothing to prevent recidivism. It often makes it worse, as once someone comes out of prison, it can be extremely difficult to find work (since employers discriminate against felons), causing them to turn back to a life o…

You could never let out anyone who has willfully killed a person, and you wouldn’t have the recidivism problem.

Re: Face transplant recipient’s donor face now failing

#90

Post by DoreenMichele »

zbentley wrote: post #85
DoreenMichele wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why attack it? There is more in your body than just your cells. We are in the infancy of understanding stuff like this, but my WAG is that donor tissue can be rejected because it contains hostile microorganisms that didn't make the radar of the medical staff for whatever reason.

> donor tissue can be rejected because it contains hostile microorganisms Citation? That sounds both convenient and implausible (medical science has a long way to go in many areas, but microscopy/microorganism detection is pretty far along).

Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-...

FYI: WAG stands for Wild Ass Guess. They usually don't involve citations.

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