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Will America's debt doom us?

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Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#191
post #165

Yes this will doom us if it is not taken care of but I expect the American people will get smart and elect congressional leaders that will care of the growing national debt before we default. 9.8% of all of our government's revenues (tax dollars) are wasted on paying interest on the $22 trillion dollars of national debt(1)(2). 1) https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55342 2) https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Please read the article.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were budget surpluses from 1998 through 2001. One thing you aren't accounting for is tax receipts going up because the economy grows. It's usually the case that spending goes up at the same time, but it doesn't have to go up.

> It's usually the case that spending goes up at the same time, but it doesn't have to go up. I just know I read a lot of headlines about how government programs are underfunded. I feel like the base of a lot of Democratic candidate campaigns is about wanting to spend more money for people who need it (impoverished people, etc.)

Have you read about Trump's tax cut?

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#193
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social Security funds aren't allowed to be invested in the stock market, and are held in the form of US Treasuries [0]. There was talk of changing that under Bush 44, but his reform plans never gained any serious traction. [0] https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/policy-basics-...

> Social Security funds aren't allowed to be invested in the stock market I know, but based on my calculations above, don't you agree that the end user (citizens) are not getting the best bang for their buck?

It depends on your definition of "best bang for your buck".

Social Security doesn't exist to maximize returns, it exists to protect the elderly from extreme poverty once they are no longer able to work. Because of that, the funds are invested in a very risk averse manner.

I'd certainly be open to the idea of a US sovereign wealth fund in some sense, but I don't think privatization or anything else where individuals are making decisions about their own Social Security account is a good idea, since we'll have to create another Social Security-like program to support the people who invested poorly and are unable to support themselves.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do Republicans advertise they are going to spend money on? I'm only familiar with Democrats calling for free health care, free college, universal basic income, etc.

War and enriching military contractors, creating the TSA, subsidies to businesses that don't need them, etc. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FiW5I95R5xg/hqdefault.jpg

Say what you want about him, but Trump did run an anti-war and anti-military spending campaign. The budgets he's approved are a huge betrayal to his base. There's spending on border security and the wall that's not really happening, but that's chump change compared to entitlements and broader military spending.

So it seems like we have the choice of voting for left-wing politicians who run on increasing spending on new forms of entitlements, and spending will increase precipitously - or voting for right-wing politicians who run on not spending like the neocons do, then just do it anyway, and spending will increase precipitously.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why US having military presence around the globe tilts the free markets in their favour. Realistically, no military outside of perhaps Russian could stand up against the US but I don't think US are outright forcing trade agreements at a gun point, or am I wrong?

Sometimes you can just ask someone what their motivations are and they simply tell you: Summary of the 2018 National Defense Strategy of the USA https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-Nation... (11 pages, easy read) First page: "Failure to meet our defense objectives will result in decreasing U.S. global influence, eroding cohesion among allies and partners, and reduced access to markets that will cont…

What rational state wouldn’t want to avoid the above scenarios?

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#196
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, state debt is not like personal or corparate debt. If you cut your spending to pay of a loan, it is usually not a problem. If the state cut its spending to pay back a loan, it means people have to spent more money on another spot to make up for the budget cuts. We see this currently in Germany, the German government is proud of their budget but at the same time the infrastructure is crumbling, trains…

> The ideology to have little or no state debt is hurting the economy and will do so in the future. Ideology can be pretty dangerous. This seems like your main point. Back up, though: > [...] state debt is not like personal or corparate debt. If you cut your spending to pay of a loan, it is usually not a problem. How is it less of a problem for a person, or for a corporation, than for a government, to have to reduce…

[deleted]

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#197
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do Republicans advertise they are going to spend money on? I'm only familiar with Democrats calling for free health care, free college, universal basic income, etc.

The military and homeland security. Also: A half reasonable single-payer health care system should save a lot of money over-all. The fiscal conservatives should be all over that one.

Our government already spends more on its healthcare programs (Medicare and Medicaid) than Germany and UK, and they don’t even cover half of the people. I don’t see how paying for everyone would save any money at all. It might make the per capita costs a bit lower, but total tax expenditure will certainly be higher.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#198
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, state debt is not like personal or corparate debt. If you cut your spending to pay of a loan, it is usually not a problem. If the state cut its spending to pay back a loan, it means people have to spent more money on another spot to make up for the budget cuts. We see this currently in Germany, the German government is proud of their budget but at the same time the infrastructure is crumbling, trains…

> The ideology to have little or no state debt is hurting the economy and will do so in the future. Ideology can be pretty dangerous. This seems like your main point. Back up, though: > [...] state debt is not like personal or corparate debt. If you cut your spending to pay of a loan, it is usually not a problem. How is it less of a problem for a person, or for a corporation, than for a government, to have to reduce…

Ideologies are not dangerous, they are just the eyes through which we see things. Sometimes you have to be able to see more because your ideology doesn't help you. But you will never really escape that bias.

The difference is actually very simple. Persons and corporations are not closed systems. If you safe money, the impact is very small. Even when a big corporation safes money it doesn't really matter. But the state is huge and spends a lot of money. And many companies depend on state contracts.

I give you a simple example. The German state is subsidising public transport, if the state cuts theses costs, the company providing this service has only a few choices, such as cutting service or increasing prices. These will leads the consumer to have higher costs. If the company cuts lay off people to compensate, those will lose their income and the state must even pay them unemployment benefits.

So the state budget is not really a question if something is be paid but rather by whom and at what point. It is essentially a closed system.

P.S. Very export depended countries can essentially export this partially to other countries. There is this argument that Germany did that with Greece. While Germany consolidated its budget, the debt of Greece increased.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why US having military presence around the globe tilts the free markets in their favour. Realistically, no military outside of perhaps Russian could stand up against the US but I don't think US are outright forcing trade agreements at a gun point, or am I wrong?

The United States has a variety of techniques for making sure its business interests get what they want. Aircraft carriers are one (see Iraq, and possibly Iran if things go south), CIA-sponsored coups another (Guatemala, El Salvador), economic sanctions a third (Iran again, Russia, much of Latin America). Negotiation at gun point often takes the form of crippling sanctions until and unless a US-friendly regime is in…

Can I make a small counterpoint? I would say Noam Chomsky has very little credibility as a social scientist. (As a linguist is another matter.) He's tied himself in knots over Venezuela. Before that he disgraced himself by denying genocide in Cambodia (http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomsky/wma.html). His books are well-nigh unreadable rants, which substitute conspiratorial thinking for serious analysis.

If you want to read a serious progressive economist, go for Dani Rodrik. Or hell, read Marx. Marx was a real social scientist. Chomsky, no.

Re: Will America's debt doom us?

#200
post #64
post #50

It's always great to see an extremely intelligent person try to rationalize a core belief that's at direct odds with the cold, hard, and unforgiving reality they live in. The amount of mental gymnastics done here are Olympian, and this guy deserves a gold medal. However, even the fanciest mental tricks are never going to change the fundamental laws of reality. In the entire article he dances around second order effec…

On the other hand, top marginal tax rates are a fraction of what they were at their peak last century. We could double tax revenue at the drop of a hat, paying down our debt and ameliorating toxic wealth inequality simultaneously.

Effective tax rates haven't changed that much over time [0]. Doubling the tax rate on the rich is unlikely to double tax revenue, and could easily decrease income tax revenue.

If we want to increase tax revenue to fund our current and future liabilities, the money is almost certainly going to have to come from tax increases on the middle class (who don't pay meaningful amounts of federal income tax for the most part) in the form of a VAT, as almost every other developed nation has already determined.

[0] https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-on-the-rich-1950s-not-high/

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