Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#51

Post by Doxterpepper » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

javagram wrote: post #4

y4mi wrote: post #3

So they're ramping up the detection of people using their phones while waiting for the traffic light to turn green? Doesn't really sound like this is actually about safety. I doubt these cameras can capture the photo do a decent quality on that angle for anything but standing or very slow moving cars But I guess we can hope it will stop some people, even if there will be a lot of people caught that weren't really end…

People using their phones while waiting for the light is absolutely a safety issue. They aren’t paying attention and when the light turns green they may either hit a pedestrian as they hurry to move , or not notice the green and be rear ended by a driver who expects them to begin moving.

> They aren’t paying attention and when the light turns green they may either hit a pedestrian as they hurry to move...

This sounds like a different issue that can arise without phones being involved. Just because you look at your phone does not mean you need to be sheepish when you look back up. The problem is people are more worried about getting going than being safe.

> ...or not notice the green and be rear ended by a driver who expects them to begin moving.

If someone rear ends you when the light turns green that is 100% their fault. You can't start moving if the car in front of you is stopped. This has been the case long before the existence of phones.

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#52

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #15

homonculus1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need police-connected camera networks running machine learning in any US city.

Especially when a officer on the street corner will do the job (and prevent a ton of other petty law violations) just as well without being Orwellian about it. Edit : Do the down-voters care to explain how a networked camera system is somehow better or less orwellian than a human cop?

[deleted]

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#53

Post by quotemstr » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #40

quotemstr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you yourself drive? It's easy to make these demands when you're not affected by the resulting inefficiency.

I drive 2+ hours round-trip for work every weekday, and my work often has me visiting client sites during the week. I find nothing difficult about setting my destination via GPS before I begin my drive, and I find that my attention to what's going on around me is significantly diminished should I attempt to modify my route while driving. An inconvenience of, say, 5-10 minutes to find a place to pull over and input ne…

> absolutely worth it

Can you demonstrate, using numbers, that the tradeoff is positive?

> I cannot believe people are arguing for "efficiency" over traffic safety.

People prioritize efficiency over safety all the time. It's a good thing. So do you, if you support non-zero speed limits. The current animus against cell phone use while driving is the result of a moral panic, not a rational cost-benefit tradeoff.

> If I pull over to a safe place to use my phone, nobody is harmed.

Untrue. The act of pulling is itself is a complex maneuver that practically invites accidents. Most accidents occur at low speed, and often, when you pull over, you pull over into an area where pedestrians are active. It might be the case that pulling over instead of using a phone at a red light results in more people being injured or killed.

https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/lytx-fleet-accidents-...

> My wife was rear-ended while waiting

Anecdotal personal misfortune is not an argument for society-wide policy.

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#54

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #19

gruez wrote: post #12

>But it is illegal to touch a phone while driving except to pass it to a passenger. The ban even applies to drivers who are stationary at red lights or stuck in traffic jams. This sounds like a hassle for anyone trying to use gps on their phones. Also, doesn't this essentially outlaw rideshare drivers? How can you accept rides or confirm a pickup if you can't touch the phone? I never saw any driver use voice commands…

>This sounds like a hassle for anyone trying to use gps on their phones. What hassle? Futzing with your GPS app while driving is just as dangerous as texting. Set your destination before you drive and pull over if you need to adjust it, just as you should if you need to text. >How can you accept rides or confirm a pickup... Pull over.

[deleted]

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#55

Post by jjulius » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #48

ticmasta wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heaven for bid we impact "driving efficiency" for something as low-priority as public safety...

Why is "safety" the most important consideration? A world that values safety above everything else is a pretty dismal world --- and it's a world without cars at all.

>Why is "safety" the most important consideration?

Because driving is an inherently dangerous act, and we should be doing as much as we can to minimize said danger. We wake up and leave the house understanding that there are a litany of risks in the world that could bring harm to us. Many of these risks, such as driving, are accepted because we put restrictions on drivers to minimize the risk of harm that they would otherwise pose.

Driving requires a significant amount of focus and attention from the driver. What you're arguing for is to allow drivers to remove their attention and focus from the situation entirely. Should they use their GPS while operating their car, they then become unaware of what is happening around them and are unable to respond quickly and safely.

Do you really think that is OK?

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#56

Post by jjulius » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #53

jjulius wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive 2+ hours round-trip for work every weekday, and my work often has me visiting client sites during the week. I find nothing difficult about setting my destination via GPS before I begin my drive, and I find that my attention to what's going on around me is significantly diminished should I attempt to modify my route while driving. An inconvenience of, say, 5-10 minutes to find a place to pull over and input ne…

> absolutely worth it Can you demonstrate, using numbers, that the tradeoff is positive? > I cannot believe people are arguing for "efficiency" over traffic safety. People prioritize efficiency over safety all the time. It's a good thing. So do you, if you support non-zero speed limits. The current animus against cell phone use while driving is the result of a moral panic, not a rational cost-benefit tradeoff. > If I…

>Can you demonstrate, using numbers, that the tradeoff is positive?

Are you kidding? If I pull over to a safe place to use my phone, nobody is harmed. If I'm driving and take my attention off of the road and over to my phone, and I smack into a motorcyclist because I didn't see them, I could kill them.

>The current animus against cell phone use while driving is the result of a moral panic, not a rational cost-benefit tradeoff.

Moral panic? My wife was rear-ended while waiting to turn because the driver of the car that hit her was on their cellphone and didn't see her - they admitted as much. She's still suffering from pain from that accident and the car she was driving was totaled. How is not getting into an accident "not a rational cost-benefit tradeoff"?

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#57

Post by jbarberu » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #36

blahyawnblah wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not on the road at that point, so I doubt that

Right. I'm sure the language of laws in many regions suggests that using tap-to-pay with your phone at a drive-thru is technically illegal, but I'd be curious to see if anybody has actually been ticketed for it or if this is just fearmongering.

I'm pretty sure a drive-through isn't considered a public road in most jurisdictions, similar to how people usually don't worry about speed traps on Nürburgring.

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#58

Post by johnisgood » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

shoshino wrote: post #44

In London the rules are really stupid. Using smart-devices while driving is allowed as long as the device is mounted. Woe betide anyone caught with a phone to their ear.

Yeah, if the reason is attention (and safety), then it does not matter whether it is mounted or not. Your attention is still elsewhere.

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#59

Post by jbarberu » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

AcerbicZero wrote: post #46

smileysteve wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop, why! Aiming to catch people on their phones is a perversion of the laws because we have made it too easy to get away with driving while distracted. It used to be that distracted driving was subjective; but with dash cams on police cars, why can't police crack down on actual distracted indications objectively. All of us anecdotally can guess that someone not moving on green, going slow in the left lane, crossing…

The root of the problem is bad driving. You can be stone sober, fully rested and have your phone locked in the trunk of your car, but none of that matters if you lack the skills needed to operate a vehicle at speed. Drivers education is woefully inadequate and the only driving laws I see enforced are the ones which have a clear easy to obtain financial incentive attached for the police.

I think the lack of decent public transport in many places contribute to this. When I've lived in cities with good public transport I would usually take the bus, especially if I wasn't feeling in a good mental state to drive (tired, stressed, other). In Orlando that's not an option, here I can chose to stay home or drive.

Re: Australia uses new technology to catch drivers on phones

#60

Post by Doxterpepper » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

yonaguska wrote: post #9

javagram wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People using their phones while waiting for the light is absolutely a safety issue. They aren’t paying attention and when the light turns green they may either hit a pedestrian as they hurry to move , or not notice the green and be rear ended by a driver who expects them to begin moving.

To second your point- I'd hazard that people using phones at lights are also using them in between lights. I filter at lights despite it being illegal where I live- because I've already been rear ended twice by people on phones. And by filtering I get a great view on people using their phones. They are nine times out of ten using their phones leading up to the light, during the light and during takeoff. I've also not…

> "I've also noticed that when they notice movement in their peripheral, they start driving forward even when the light is red."

This has been the case for years. When people aren't paying attention they are pavlovian in staring forward when they notice movement around them. But this doesn't necessarily have to coincide with cell phone usage, just bad driving.