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The Church of Interruption

sambleckley.com

141–150 of 151 posts

Re: The Church of Interruption

#141
Excited conversations between geeks tend to ramble a lot with a lot of interruptions, and while everyone's having fun, many conversational threads get abandoned as people get drawn into the new topic and forget what they were planning to say.

I invented conversation queues for me and my friends. Whenever someone is inspired to tangent onto a new topic, they interrupt only long enough to point at me and say a word or two, which I write down. The next time there's a lull in conversation, I announce the next topic in the queue and cross it off, and the person who inserted it gets to expound.

It seems to work really well, and the list can get quite long with a few hours over coffee or beer.

Re: The Church of Interruption

#142
post #70

I've noticed a pretty heinous conversational pattern develop out of interruption sometimes. In theory, the best way to conduct a church-of-interruption exchange of ideas is big-endian: you begin by summarising your idea and only then flesh out the details. That way if your conclusion is understood you find out as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, if your conversational partner tends to interrupt incorrectly or in b…

I've noticed in my experience that the Big Endian approach has been less successful for me in work environments. Another wrench in the system is that when you want to get things done, especially at a leadership level, you will come to realize that the whole system in this article goes out the window if people aren't honest when they don't understand something.

I'm often thinking ahead in conversations and in a company hierarchy where people some don't want to admit not knowing or not understanding, I noticed people would nod or agree, but no actions would be taken. I though about this for a while and came to the conclusion that people simply need an explanation, but don't want to admit not understanding. SO what looked like agreement was facade to hide the confusion. It took me a bit, but I learned to move away from making a statement and waiting for questions, to leading into a conclusion so that everyone has more context with which to ask questions, or feel more comfortable asking a question because "hey, I understood most of that, but he/she lost me at that point"

Re: The Church of Interruption

#144
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically they are forcing the speaker to explain the same thing as they would have continued anyway, plus they even force the same speakers to fix the interrupters' mistakes in their thinking. Why is that good?

You're exactly on point, and your 1:1 exchange here demonstrates the principle of shallow thoughts perfectly.

[deleted]

Re: The Church of Interruption

#145
post #45

I'm an interrupter, by nature. And I also have a tendency to talk when I'm nervous. As TFA says, I'm fine with other interrupters. We have great conversations. We start finishing each others thoughts. But otherwise, not so great. Probably the best insight that I got from group therapy was being told that I needed to learn when to shut up. So I've learned to be adaptive. And when I'm nervous, I've learned to draw peop…

Do you ever stop thinking about what you're about to say and instead focus on how your audience is reacting to what you just said? I find watching peoples' faces and any cues that reveal their emotion helps me gauge whether or not I'm having a "not so great" conversation, which allows me to be less interrupt-y and more of a listener.

Yes, I do that constantly. I tried direct sales for a while, and one of my long-term jobs involved public speaking. So I've had some training.

Also, and maybe this will seem strange, I often feel like I'm just pretending to be a "normal person".

Re: The Church of Interruption

#146
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carol has to let it go. Worst thing to do is interrupt the current flow. She will come across as a "Barker" like she had sat there not listening to what Alice or Bob had to say and was just thinking about what she wanted to say about topic one the whole time. Best thing to do is wait until the end and circle back with a question that leads into discussing topic one. Doing this you immediately relinquish control of th…

Your view is extremely simplistic and just doesn't reflect the sophistication of any abstract and complex conversation. Especially if the topic at hand is a new territory with a lot of unknown unknowns. If no-one ever explicitly says that "OK, we covered topic one and now we move on to topic two. Is there anyone who wants to add comments?", then the conversation was not very civil, was not yet over, and whoever organ…

You're reading a lot into what was a fairly simple scenario with no mention of what the topics were. It came across as being an informal meeting with no agenda, moderator or stated outcomes.

About all we can assume from the scenario are the power dynamics. Alice spoke first which says it's either her meeting or she is the ranking person there - not Carol.

If it was a meeting to address the potential critical failure of a system that Carol is the most knowledgeable about, then yes, she should speak up. It could be potentially negligent to not do so, but most meetings are not that.

Re: The Church of Interruption

#147
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carol has to let it go. Worst thing to do is interrupt the current flow. She will come across as a "Barker" like she had sat there not listening to what Alice or Bob had to say and was just thinking about what she wanted to say about topic one the whole time. Best thing to do is wait until the end and circle back with a question that leads into discussing topic one. Doing this you immediately relinquish control of th…

>Is it going to kill you to not say it? It means a decision will be made without Carol's information that she'll have to live with, potentially hampering her ability to deliver something she's accountable for. If her manager finds out she knew something important and held onto it out of politeness, that'll come up in the leadership/collaboration section of her next review. If her manager doesn't know that she knew, i…

> Maybe this is a quirk of my meeting culture, but the success rate here is approximately zero.

Is this a power dynamic, time limitation or an adherence to not backtrack?

Re: The Church of Interruption

#148
post #70

I've noticed a pretty heinous conversational pattern develop out of interruption sometimes. In theory, the best way to conduct a church-of-interruption exchange of ideas is big-endian: you begin by summarising your idea and only then flesh out the details. That way if your conclusion is understood you find out as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, if your conversational partner tends to interrupt incorrectly or in b…

I've noticed in my experience that the Big Endian approach has been less successful for me in work environments. Another wrench in the system is that when you want to get things done, especially at a leadership level, you will come to realize that the whole system in this article goes out the window if people aren't honest when they don't understand something. I'm often thinking ahead in conversations and in a compan…

Well said. In a business context it often feels like a risk to admit that you don't know something. Because it's a competitive situation and the Prod M Lead isn't about to display ignorance to the Dev Lead who is nodding sagely like they understood all the malarkey that the Chief Architect just spewed out.

And since those two doofuses are pretending they already have a clue, the QA Lead feels even more like THEY should already have one and so on and so forth.

Switch that to a context where you're the Prod M Lead, and you're talking about the roadmap to the Sales team who are all nodding their heads like they totally get it even when they're not and you have a high potential for an unproductive or counterproductive situation.

To me, being willing to admit you don't understand, or even to ask questions as if you don't understand when you do, is a sign of leadership-- it signals that you really care about having everyone on the team clued in and able to apply themselves to the situation at hand.

Heck, it might even be useful to have a "designated doofus" in your meetings who is there specifically to watch for this behavior and ask "stupid" questions to ensure understanding by as many people as possible in that room.

Re: The Church of Interruption

#149
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So jokes are Little-endian I guess.

It makes sense. They say humour is based on creating expectations and solving them suddenly.

> They say humour is based on creating expectations and solving them suddenly.

I don't know what it means to solve expectations; I'd guess it means to meet them, but I've always understood part of the recipe for humour to be violating expectations.

Re: The Church of Interruption

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person’s “confrontation” is another person’s “collaboration”. From the other point of view, never interrupting is a fundamentally standoffish way to interact.

I don't know how collaboration is implicated, but regardless that's not the form of confrontation I'm talking about. It's confrontational because interrupters and Barkers (from the story) have to either be overpowered vocally, or asked specifically to allow for the thoughts of others ("Can I finish?"). never interrupting is a fundamentally standoffish way to interact What does this mean?

No, “interrupters” do not have to be “overpowered”. They just have to be interrupted, which is something they are expecting, and will stop talking to accommodate.

The back-and-forth of a conversation (including interruptions) is a collaborative endeavor, not a “confrontation”. Something like playing improvisational music together.

If someone often interrupts but will not easily allow themselves to be interrupted, or if someone completely ignores what the other person is saying, then that is just rude, not some difference in conversational culture. That’s not what we are talking about in this discussion though.

For people in an interruption-heavy conversation culture, someone who sits back and doesn’t say anything because there is never a long pause where no one else is talking – or who doesn’t jump in and say something when the interrupter starts saying explaining something they already know, leaving the interrupter to waste their time – seems cold and distant. The non-interrupter’s silence feels judgmental and antisocial. The interrupter will often interpret the non-interrupter’s behavior as an indication that that he/she does not like the interrupter or does not want to be part of the conversation.

Often this impression of standoffishness is inaccurate, a result of cultural misunderstanding. Just like the non-interrupter’s impression that the interrupter is confrontational or rude is inaccurate, also a misunderstanding.

* * *

There are many similar kinds of cultural differences which can lead to misunderstandings.

When someone from a culture where each person gets a personal plate to eat from meets someone from a culture where everyone eats from a communal plate, each person can interpret the other’s behavior as rudeness.

When someone from a culture without much physical contact meets someone from a culture where people greet each-other with hugs or kisses, again, each can interpret the opposite behavior as rudeness.

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