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Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

nature.com

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Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#81

Post by petre »

avip wrote: post #71
maxerickson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resistance to antibiotics would take us back to 1900, not to the brink of annihilation. My point isn't to dismiss the problem, just that it would mean things like surgery being much riskier, not massive die offs.

Not to contradict you, but had we the Spanish flu today you'd get 300mm dead within a year, and about 2.5 Billion people hospitalized... that would far exceed any humanitarian crisis we can currently imagine.

The Spanish flu came after the Great War, that's what made it so deadly. That and lack of medication, poor sanitation, hunger etc. which made people even more vulnerable. We have similar pathogens today, some if which mutated from the Spanish flu (Influenza type A). Also, flu is caused by a virus and this research is about antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#82

Post by HenryBemis »

kryogen1c wrote: post #9

Source paper https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6459/eaaw1944.ful... >From 2000 to 2018, the proportion of antimicrobial compounds with resistance higher than 50% (P50) increased from 0.15 to 0.41 in chickens and from 0.13 to 0.34 in pigs and plateaued between 0.12 and 0.23 in cattle. >Globally, 73% of all antimicrobials sold on Earth are used in animals raised for food. Jeeeesus. It sure feels like humanity…

> It sure feels like humanity is painting itself into a corner along

it's called capitalism, and "increasing shareholder value". This is why large corp lobby in the USA, this is why big pharma bribes anyone with a stethoscope, this is why big oil is trying to stop/slow/control progress of solar/wind.

"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/01/22/borrow-earth/

Edit: for many people, today & money is far more important than tomorrow & children. I hope that humanity proves me wrong, but it will get darker before it gets brighter.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#83

Post by petre »

Richard_East wrote: post #69
garmaine wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's due to agriculture and lack of synthetic fertilizer, not antibiotics.

https://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/solutions/... "Earth's phosphorus is being depleted at an alarming rate. At current consumption levels, we will run out of known phosphorus reserves in around 80 years, but consumption will not stay at current levels. Nearly 90% of phosphorus is used in the global food supply chain, most of it in crop fertilizers. If no action is taken to quell fertilizer use, demand…

It's not like it leaves the atmosphere and gets blown into space like Helium. I'm sure it collects in bones, plants, gets washed into the sea and it's generally just spread around.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#84

Post by warent »

seanwilson wrote: post #80
warent wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for vegetarianism as a whole. The word is ambiguous at best and only useful as a pointer to the layperson. Most people don't even understand the differences between vegan and vegetarian. Ultimately I find veganism is a form of extremism that isn't right for everyone. Any level of mindful eating is admirable, even if someone changes their constant diet of meat to one of having 1 day a week meat-free for…

Personally, I wish people in general were more educated about the cruelty behind milk, eggs and cheese, so they would seek alternatives. Vegetarians appear to suffer from cognitive dissonance as well.

We're talking about two different things for two different purposes.

It is possible for people to eat meat and not experience any cognitive dissonance because they're mindfully aware of what they're consuming, what has gone into it, and the reason behind it. See Native Americans as an example. Yes, even the Dalai Lama consumes meat. I don't judge people for their dietary choices. I'm specifically talking about people who gorge on a diet carelessly at the expense of the environment and the economy as a point of evidence that we're unlikely to ever see antibiotics being diminished in the market in our lifetimes.

No offense intended but this is getting derailed a little bit because you seem to be using this thread as a soapbox to push an agenda unrelated to the discussion.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#86

Post by KingMachiavelli »

warent wrote: post #41
alexfromapex wrote: post #32

Can we please stop overusing antibiotics? They are essentially dangerous organic weapons we don’t understand

That would mean less livestock farming, which means people would have to accept a life with less meat. It's simply not going to happen. Humans are way too arrogant and inflexible to impose the smallest inconvenience on themselves unless faced with tangible, immediately harmful effects. Not to mention the complete shift in the global economy that it would demand. I've been a vegetarian for about 4 years and the cognit…

Personally, I find the environmental issues & existential threat of climate change that livestock farming contributes towards is the far more motivating factor in reducing consumption of meat & animal products. It's a false dichomity to say it's impossible to 'love' some animals while eating others; it's bit absurd to claim since humans have been doing so for 1000s of years and that we've domesticated an entire species (dogs), in part, to help us raise livestock, etc.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#87

Post by warent »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #86
warent wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would mean less livestock farming, which means people would have to accept a life with less meat. It's simply not going to happen. Humans are way too arrogant and inflexible to impose the smallest inconvenience on themselves unless faced with tangible, immediately harmful effects. Not to mention the complete shift in the global economy that it would demand. I've been a vegetarian for about 4 years and the cognit…

Personally, I find the environmental issues & existential threat of climate change that livestock farming contributes towards is the far more motivating factor in reducing consumption of meat & animal products. It's a false dichomity to say it's impossible to 'love' some animals while eating others; it's bit absurd to claim since humans have been doing so for 1000s of years and that we've domesticated an entire speci…

You're right, it was poorly worded. I didn't intend to say that consuming any meat at all means you don't care for animals.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#88

Post by csallen »

Andrex wrote: post #50
kryogen1c wrote: post #9

Source paper https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6459/eaaw1944.ful... >From 2000 to 2018, the proportion of antimicrobial compounds with resistance higher than 50% (P50) increased from 0.15 to 0.41 in chickens and from 0.13 to 0.34 in pigs and plateaued between 0.12 and 0.23 in cattle. >Globally, 73% of all antimicrobials sold on Earth are used in animals raised for food. Jeeeesus. It sure feels like humanity…

> Im not sure we've ever been powerfull enough to be truly as in danger as we are now. I mean when the Black Death comes along and mops up 30-60% of a continent's entire population in half a decade, you get a little more respect for how terrifying nature has manifested in history... With that said, we've been two key turns and a button press away from total annihilation since the mid-1950s when the US and Soviets sta…

It is fascinating to see how comfortable we've all become with living under the threat of near-instant nuclear annihilation.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#89

Post by petre »

prongletown wrote: post #25
kryogen1c wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its simple to get to know your local rancher. >Factory farms are the bigger problem, not just meat per-se. Not just meat farms! One thing vegans and vegetarians often gloss over is the death per calorie involved in crop fields. Those thousands of acres have animals in them, and the machines sure dont stop for every varmit that gets in the way. It is not clear what the right answer is (assuming all you care about is…

>eat well raised cow meat It takes significantly more feed to raise a cow. The calories extracted from cow meat is extremely inefficient considering the high number of calories in (feed) and water. So, you could not use feed (vegetable death-per-calorie!) because it's something like a 8:1 calorie ratio for feed to a pound of beef. You'd have to pasture raise the cows. There is no feasible way to ensure that all food…

What do you propose? That we start eating crickets? Actually I would try some, maybe they taste like shrimp. Shrimp are another quickly reproducing species, but they're also sensitive to pollution.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#90

Post by petre »

goatinaboat wrote: post #38

Well, if course they are. Chinese farmers use antibiotics like candy. Even the stuff that the West considers reserve antibiotics of last resort. There is zero possibility of any Western pressure making them stop. Look also at the CO2 they emit and the plastic they dump in the ocean. The CCP has only two modes, rising living standards by questionable means, and mass die-offs of the population. This is the strategy of…

Of course you can pressure them to slow down, just stop buying their stuff.

I recommend watching "The Coming War with China" documentary on Al Jazeera. It has changed my perspective about the US, China, Mao. It's not all black and white, but rather different shades of grey.

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