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The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

nytimes.com

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Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#121

Post by asdfman123 »

twoquestions wrote: post #70
distant_hat wrote: post #24

The vast majority of office chitchat is like a carrier wave in radio. It doesn't transmit much information other than I am a normal human who you can turn to when it is needed. There is a fair amount of politics etc that is conveyed more through body language and dominance dynamics rather than the actual words exchanged.

Except they don't care about you. Someone could burst through the door and skin you alive, but your coworkers won't be in the least bit perturbed unless: 1) Your mutilation was against company policy 2) Some bits of you got on their shirt. Personally, I'd much rather deal with people knives drawn rather than work hard pretending to care if each other lives or dies.

It's not all or nothing. I may like the guy I'm sitting next to and try to help him out where I can, but I'm not going to sacrifice my career if he makes a mistake that dooms him.

If a coworker I like suddenly passes I'm not going to mourn for weeks, I'm going to say "that's a bummer" and go on with my life. But that doesn't mean I am completely devoid of caring for them.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#122

Post by air7 »

Thinking about the reasons why people engage in smalltalk (in other areas of life too such as family and friends, dating, service providers, etc) helps (me) cope with its banality and even enjoy it; The irrationality is quite rational.

A conversation, especially a face-to-face one, contains something beyond content: Something like a meeting of souls. The (hopefully positive) feeling of the presence of another human being. The breadth and importance of this non-verbal communication is obvious.

Smalltalk then, is basically a request to engage only in this non-verbal connection for a fleeting moment. The content is almost completely irrelevant. It's just the excuse to be in a bubble together for a while. Seen this way helps (me) in two ways:

0. You don't need to be "good" at it. It really doesn't matter what you say. Say anything and the ball keeps rolling for a few moments longer. 1. You can find compassion towards the person who initiates it instead of contempt: They are actually asking to warm by your fire for a little bit. They are not testing/dueling you.

Or in the more sentimental words of L. Armstrong: "I see friends shaking hands, saying How Do You Do. They're really saying I Love You"

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#123

Post by Pmop »

cryptozeus wrote: post #112

Am I the only one who thinks this article is total nonsense. Really? You “need” to do small talk in order to get promotion and be liked around the office. How about we leave this to the individual’s personality. If you are in the right culture fit then you don”need” to do anything. You will love to chichat with your colleagues and if not that is okay to. Some people just love to work on their craft and small talk is…

No, you aren't. I also see it as distraction, which is even worse to programmers who have to keep laser focused on their work.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#124

Post by thomk »

ericmcer wrote: post #118
thomk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I worked with someone who rotated the same asinine 1/2 dozen or so comments about me and my appearance or arrival time etc. It annoyed the shit out of me, but, I also realized he probably didn't know another way. Sometimes people are trying to find any way, in their limited ability, to connect with someone who is clearly smarter than they are. So they pick on you. A good first attempt to stop this is to try to…

Just a small tip since this entire thread is about socializing effectively, referring to yourself as extremely smart and others as morons bothering you with their attempts at friendship will not earn you points. In general if you think you are smart the best way to demonstrate that is not by telling people about it. To paraphrase Geto Boys: “real gangstas don’t flex nuts cause real gangstas know they got em”

Excellent point, thank you. I agree. I meant 'idiot' in the pejorative sense and I felt my audience was the quiet computer types. Your point is well taken though because people can be smart in a lot of different ways.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#125

Post by asdfman123 »

twoquestions wrote: post #91
war1025 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a wild place to work at. Also sounds like a great way to end up isolated and alone. Even at work, you sometimes need people in your corner.

Except the incentives are aligned to be a Hobbesian war of all against all. There is no incentive to collaborate or team up at all. Ever wonder why shows like Survivor and Battle Royale games are so popular? That's how office life is these days. Nobody is ever "in your corner" as you put it. Everyone is always and forever trying to gut everyone else in a neverending zero sum game. Unless you work in a new/high growth…

Maybe there's an argument that if you go full Machiavelli you can rise higher in the corporate world, but what's the point? Sure, I could become the Senior VP of Whatever, but that won't make me happy, and sacrificing my personal values will make me unhappy.

Furthermore, I learned the value of collaboration, even if it helps potential opponents, through the card game Puerto Rico. Trading with others helps them, but it equally helps you. Say you're playing with 4 other people. Trading gives you +1 benefit for both parties. Refusing to trade causes 0.5 harm. The rational strategy is to trade as much as possible (except maybe with the frontrunner), because if you just go around harming everyone else, you'll equally harm yourself. They'll get hurt, but they can just turn around and benefit from trades with other players.

It is possible to get quite far by being a solid person with integrity. And if that appeals to you, you should never sacrifice that.

Finally, it's a big world. My purpose in any job is to learn and grow as much as possible, and then take those skills elsewhere. Meanwhile, those who rise to the top of the heap at some company due to bad politics -- are they actually going anywhere? Or are they stuck in the bed of their own making?

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#126

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

journalctl wrote: post #120
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about other Americans, but for me it's because you can't give unexpected answers to such questions even if they are true. Instead you're just playing out a culturally mandated script.

Every day is filled with culturally-mandated scripts, though. You don’t belch in front of a date (unless you’re already super close). You say “please” and “thank you” to people. You make eye contact and nod occasionally when someone speaks to you. It’s impossible not to have norms like this (and if it weren’t these norms, it would be others). They might not make a lot of sense all the time, but that’s not their purpo…

But those scripts are at least brief. Chit chat is typically about things that are supposed to be "shared" interests by everyone like whatever TV shows are currently considered culturally relevant, or the local sportsball results. When you legitimately do not care about any of those things it gets awkward in a hurry. Hell, I'm only barely aware of the current weather conditions, let alone the forecast, which is pretty much as default as topics get for this.

I guess my problem is that it is a ritual meant to simulate a conversation, yet unlike a conversation no meaningful information is meant to be exchanged.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#127

Post by asdfman123 »

twoquestions wrote: post #74

Small talk is an extremely high-risk low reward activity depending on your status with the company, especially if your manager has told you your status is utterly fixed. How in the hell are you supposed to build a rapport with people who would as soon skin you alive as look at you, and only tolerate you for what you can do that no one else can?

That's a sign of a toxic workplace. Far better to just move on and find a place that respects human beings.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#128

Post by godfreyantonell »

Porthos9K wrote: post #96
borumpilot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me and my wife that works basically the same, but I have found method to the madness. 1. She loves it when I come to save her when the tone of the spontaneous discussion is not to her liking and nothing kills said discussions faster then me participating. 2. When I strike it, my conversations tends to be very subject focused and will leave me and the other person smarter and more informed. So what I do now is eit…

I know you probably meant "continuous" instead of "continence", but I can't help but chuckle at the usage.

One can never have too much of either form of improvement. Also, I am the same way at parties. As an introvert my battery gets charged fairly quickly. My wife is the extrovert.

Re: The Awkward but Essential Art of Office Chitchat

#129

Post by close04 »

hrktb wrote: post #46
close04 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cherry on top doesn't make a difference between 2 otherwise identical pieces of crap (or shouldn't, at least...). But it will make a difference between 2 otherwise identical cakes. Chit chat is also a form of self promotion or publicity. People are more likely to notice you delivered instead of "it was delivered" if they know you . Don't rely exclusively on your immediate manager to promote you to everyone else.…

> it will make a difference between 2 otherwise identical cakes. If we go into "all else equal" territory, you could get a promotion and not neighbour because you created your dog an instagram account that your boss likes. Or you could have built a Minecraft world that was pretty cool when your coworkers checked it from one of your sns profiles. Or you could be the only one not annoying your boss all day long, and th…

None of the reasons you wrote are nearly as reasonable as your boss(es) seeing you as a reasonable person, a team player, etc. as evidenced by your open discussions. Some things they can't glean just from the fact that you solved a ticket quickly.

Yours looks more like a list of ridiculous, implausible but of course still technically possible reasons. As a boss I'd like to know if the person I'm promoting is willing to come up with such arguments in an attempt to prove a point. ;)

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