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The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

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Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#211

Post by sofayam »

I know a suprising number of people 10-20 years older than me who regularly use desktop computers but do not understand what a window is e.g.: that windows can cover each other up, and that there are special places you must grab or click them to either resize or move them, that you can shrink them into a dock without closing the application etc.

Rather ironic considering that the operating system they all use is actually named after this, for them, inscrutable abstraction.

Those guys at Apple knew what they were on to when they created iOS with its one app at a time paradigm, even if it is slowly adding all that complexity back in to the more recent versions.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#212

Post by ryandrake »

scarface74 wrote: post #77
ryandrake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, unpopular opinion these days, but car owners should really know how to do at least the bare minimum of basic car maintenance. I'm not talking about replacing the suspension or re-building the transmission, but things like changing oil, brake pads, and refilling washer fluid. The very basic basics. Not only does it save you money (who wants to have a mechanic do something for $200 that you can do for $30 + a litt…

There are a lot of things I could save money on, but I make a good living developing software so I can pay other people to fix my car, press my clothes, mow my lawn, etc. I work during the week, money gets deposited in my account so I can enjoy the weekend doing things I want. We even spend extra going to restaurants so we don’t have to cook!

I guess I'm just with Heinlein on this one: Specialization is for insects. Interdependence is great if you can [currently] afford it. I sometimes pay someone to do something that I know I can do myself. I consider it a guilty luxury. But what's the plan if you run into hard times? When money stops magically appearing? Stop driving because you don't know how to keep your car functioning? Wear dirty, wrinkled clothing because you can't do laundry? Stop eating because you can't cook?

Being able to transform money into convenience is a great benefit of living in a modern inter-connected society. But it's only great while it lasts, and relying on always having this ability is a risky move. When my parents ran into hard times they raised and slaughtered hogs. When things got better we stopped. I don't think I'd be alive today if they didn't have that know how.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#213

Post by smileysteve »

cameronbrown wrote: post #193
eru wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Do you know why the sensors seem to have a binary output only, as opposed to checking for full level and dirt? If we put our minds to it, these days we can often make sensors that are much better than humans for these kinds of applications. Btw, you are talking about the former US president Obama? Seems a bit weird for him to care about car maintenance?

> Btw, you are talking about the former US president Obama? Seems a bit weird for him to care about car maintenance? Why wouldn't the President care about the safety of millions of potential death traps driving to work daily?

More topical was the fuel efficiency at the time

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/aug...

Estimates were that 25% of American tires were underinflated, wasting 2.8 billion gallons of gasoline every year.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#214

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

scarface74 wrote: post #198
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Economics 101 says just the opposite, that you create inefficiencies when you don’t specialize. That's simply bullshit. If you specialize on only installing tires on cars, but not removing them, you have specialized more than a business that swaps your tires, but you have created massive inefficiency by requiring your customers to somehow move around vehicles without tires for you to install tires for them. There a…

And you left out the part where I said “and there is a demand”. There is no demand for someone who can remove a tire but not install it.... Every specialization is about knowing the level of integration and specialization.

> And you left out the part where I said “and there is a demand”. There is no demand for someone who can remove a tire but not install it....

Well, then that's simply the claim that markets solve all problems optimally ... which is equally bullshit?

> Every specialization is about knowing the level of integration and specialization.

So ... specialization is always better, except when it's not? Yeah, duh!? How exactly does that help us with determining what the right level of integration and specialization is?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#215

Post by smileysteve »

eru wrote: post #149
smileysteve wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I don't even know whether you still have to manually check the level of oil? Don't they have sensors for that these days?) Most cars do have sensors for this, but they often fail, and even if they're working fine, tell you at a warning level, not at a full level. If you want to be a prepared driver you'd check your fluids regularly, but especially before long trips; The bonus is that the sensors can't tell you tha…

Interesting. Do you know why the sensors seem to have a binary output only, as opposed to checking for full level and dirt? If we put our minds to it, these days we can often make sensors that are much better than humans for these kinds of applications. Btw, you are talking about the former US president Obama? Seems a bit weird for him to care about car maintenance?

It was during the 2008 campaigns with high fuel prices; He was ridiculed for the simplicity by the right, but the NHSTA estimated that 25% of American tires are under-inflated at a cost of 2.8 billion gallons of gasoline every year.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#216

Post by TuringTest »

raxxorrax wrote: post #208
userbinator wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newer versions of MS Office (with that ribbon) have the same problem. There is an About dialog, but getting to it is a process that I still can't remember after having to do it a few times. Yet Help->About is still in my mind after all these years, despite not using it all that much. The idiotic full screen save menu that forces you to click a few more times to save on the computer instead of a cloud service (I'm sur…

You should be glad that you still have any save menu, as they wanted to scrap that in favor of autosave. Everything coming out of MS the last 5 years has been thoroughly underwhelming, but the UI development and user infantilization takes the cake. Just image everyone in your company saves any document they opened automatically. How would these even look like after 1-2 weeks? The decision processes at Microsoft canno…

Autosave is a safe and recommended UI practice; it has been widely implemented and validated by mobile UIs, where whatever you're doing is recorded when you close the app without having to explicitly save the document (a half written Whatsapp message, a mail draft...)

> Just image everyone in your company saves any document they opened automatically. How would these even look like after 1-2 weeks?

The essence of using autosave is separating storing from sharing the information. In an office suite, autosave should save your changes locally, so that a power outage won't wipe your edits.

This doesn't mean that other people will see those changes as soon as they're made; that's why you also create a "share" or "publish" command that will make them available. Developers got it and enjoy it in their version control systems, so why is it so difficult for them to understand that end users would benefit from the same safeguards? The first commandment of UI design is "treat all user input as sacred", yet so few developers respect it.

[1] http://quoteitup.com/quote/beUH/jef-raskin-the-system-should...

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#217

Post by smileysteve »

scarface74 wrote: post #101
smileysteve wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you don't need to know how to repair your car, but it's easily arguable that every car driver should recognize the things happening in their cars, otherwise, they are an unsafe driver. On the simple side of things, is your check engine light on, are you dragging your air dams, are your lights on, do your tires have any tread. Slightly more complex, recognizing that your car is over heating, recognizing burning…

If my check engine light is on, it shows up right on the panel, I take it to the car mechanic. How much do you have to “know” to see a light? Most problems with cars (except maybe tread), you get some combination of an indicator light, something smells funny, sounds funny, or your car drives differently. In either case, you either take it to a mechanic or if it can’t be driven, you get it towed.

To see a light and to take appropriate action when you see a light are 2 different things.

Where a single light can mean everything from you're losing 10% fuel efficiency to your car will seize and light on fire if you keep driving for 10 minutes.

Relevant fact: there were on average 152,000 car fires each year in the U.S.A and most crashes do not result in fire.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#218

Post by scarface74 »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #214
scarface74 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you left out the part where I said “and there is a demand”. There is no demand for someone who can remove a tire but not install it.... Every specialization is about knowing the level of integration and specialization.

> And you left out the part where I said “and there is a demand”. There is no demand for someone who can remove a tire but not install it.... Well, then that's simply the claim that markets solve all problems optimally ... which is equally bullshit? > Every specialization is about knowing the level of integration and specialization. So ... specialization is always better, except when it's not? Yeah, duh!? How exactly…

On a personal level, the “right level” depends on your disposable income and your talents. I have the disposable income to throw money at a lot of things that I don’t want to do - not bragging almost any software engineer in the US should be at the top quintile of earners for their local market.

On a broader scale that’s the entire idea of the value chain.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#219

Post by onemoresoop »

seer wrote: post #148
dusted wrote: post #135

Maybe it's time we stop catering to the users inabilities,and start making software interfaces that make sense, and expect the users to adapt if they wish to benefit. That was the expectation when I started using computers, and it was reasonable. It not only made me faster, better, stronger, it also meant that after passing a certain threshold, back then, I "got it", I didn't just get that one piece of software, I ha…

I believe that the Rich Hickey’s mantra “simple is better than easy” applies very well to UIs. A lot of the times UIs try to hide complexity by making it “easy” to do common tasks, but the underlying complexity is still there and rears its ugly head when you inevitably bump into an edge case, then you have to learn all that complexity (or as is often the case - rage quit). A good example is Amazon software in general…

The happy path is one solution in a labirynth. Once you’re off the happy path you are navigating a labirynth in the dark. It is a very frustrating experience. It would be useful to have a process map similar to the site maps of the internet 2.0 times.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#220

Post by onefuncman »

serpix wrote: post #169
Already__Taken wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don't read so I don't know how well this is going to pan out. You're making the mistake thinking users are carefully operating their machines with a purpose. It's more like being surprised by a spider, clicking on anything that moves and if it starts bonging click shut down and try again later before you delete your life. /12 years tech support and have a family.

This brings back times when doing parental tech support over the phone. "can you read what is on the screen right now" "There is nothing on the screen!" "there is a box on the center of your screen with words, please read them" "OH that box.."

Shoulda just FaceTime'd...
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