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The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

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Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#171

Post by Anthony-G »

blunte wrote: post #141
tomc1985 wrote: post #93

And this is why software sucks. We should focus on educating users, not stooping to their level GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right. And so on. If one knows the GUI language they can use almost any application for many solutions at a basic…

I have tried for years to educate users on basic tasks. A small percentage get it and use it; some basically get it and use it sometimes, forgetting other times; but some obviously pretend to watch the demonstration but actively refuse to think and commit to memory what they have just seen. In some cases I have worked with the same people for years, guiding them (IT-wise), being friends with them, watching them do do…

> some obviously pretend to watch the demonstration

It’s easy to watch a lesson or demonstration and think you get it only to discover some time later that you didn’t really understand what was being shown. A much better approach is to walk people through performing the task themselves rather than passively watch it being done. They will be much more likely understand the task and to remember how to carry out the task – and retain that knowledge for a longer time.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#172

Post by TeMPOraL »

serpix wrote: post #169
Already__Taken wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don't read so I don't know how well this is going to pan out. You're making the mistake thinking users are carefully operating their machines with a purpose. It's more like being surprised by a spider, clicking on anything that moves and if it starts bonging click shut down and try again later before you delete your life. /12 years tech support and have a family.

This brings back times when doing parental tech support over the phone. "can you read what is on the screen right now" "There is nothing on the screen!" "there is a box on the center of your screen with words, please read them" "OH that box.."

That's arguably consequence of the discussion being over the phone, not of it being about computers.

In my experience, any kind of task which involves giving people instructions is extremely frustrating when done over the phone; there's just too much context missing, so you have to start being extra precise to compensate - but then, most regular people aren't used to being talked to with precision, so they start getting annoyed and push back.

The most common example I can think of is trying to explain someone over the phone how to get somewhere, when you know the lay of the land but they don't. A lot of frustration and useless info gets exchanged before they're even able to communicate you where they are.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#173

Post by anieberry »

johnchristopher wrote: post #160
tomc1985 wrote: post #93

And this is why software sucks. We should focus on educating users, not stooping to their level GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right. And so on. If one knows the GUI language they can use almost any application for many solutions at a basic…

Personal pet peeve of mine is the Visual Studio Code and Windows Terminal Preview configuration. The first one has a JSON flat file to store settings and you have to dig the documentation or compare the original file to change something (this level of discoverability is akin to reading the source code but it's an electron map, not dwm). Later on they bolted some kind of semi-automatic UI on top of it but it doesn't h…

I absolutely love the VSC way of doing things, it means you can backup all your settings in a single JSON file. The UI they've built on top of it seems to work well enough too and is quickly searchable.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#174

Post by scarface74 »

asdff wrote: post #110
scarface74 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my check engine light is on, it shows up right on the panel, I take it to the car mechanic. How much do you have to “know” to see a light? Most problems with cars (except maybe tread), you get some combination of an indicator light, something smells funny, sounds funny, or your car drives differently. In either case, you either take it to a mechanic or if it can’t be driven, you get it towed.

Take a look at the top posts on /r/justrolledintotheshop and you will see plenty of examples of people who drive with their fingers in their ears and the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree. And those are only the cars that people begrugingly have brought in, probably 10 more like that on the road for every one in the shop.

These people know something is wrong with their car and probably couldn’t afford to get it fixed. No one chooses to not get their car fixed if they have money in the bank to take it to the car dealership.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#175

Post by scarface74 »

dusted wrote: post #139
scarface74 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should I also learn how to repair my car instead of just taking it to the dealer? It’s called specialization of labor. Most of us make an above average wage dealing with computers and pay other people to know things we don’t know.

Yes, you absolutely should. And they should make cars easier for everyone to repair too.

Should I also know how to do my own plumbing and electrical work? Carpentry? Go out and hunt and grow a garden?

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#176

Post by Nextgrid »

mruts wrote: post #151
EliRivers wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned very thoroughly that the software version details were under "Help -> About". If it's not there, I'm not only stumped; I'm genuinely angry. That doesn't have to be logical; emotional reactions happen by themselves. Making me angry with your software is not good for sales. Running on my desktop this very second; Postman. "Help" has no about. It has a "Check for Updates", but that doesn't tell me my current v…

Yeah postman is the worst. I hate that pos with a passion.

Paw is a good alternative.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#177

Post by bakuninsbart »

js8 wrote: post #122
tomc1985 wrote: post #93

And this is why software sucks. We should focus on educating users, not stooping to their level GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right. And so on. If one knows the GUI language they can use almost any application for many solutions at a basic…

Also, in really well-designed UI of the past, every menu option had a hint in the status bar, every GUI element had a tool tip, that explained what will happen when you click on it. I find modern applications (especially mobile ones) much harder to discover and use. If you're a teen, you have plenty of time to experiment, but as an adult, I just want to get the work done. Yeah, you could say that I don't want to lear…

I think a major difference is also that for the teens of today, these apps are intuitive, if they are well designed. They take like 20 seconds to figure everything out. It is just us oldies who grew up with mouse and keyboard who have these problems.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#178

Post by bakuninsbart »

Angostura wrote: post #154
t34543 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got 20 years in tech and I find products like Snapchat extremely difficult to use. It’s NOT intuitive at all. Is it just me, or is it terrible?

I foind Snapchat impossible too, but I get the feeling that to an extent its deliberate gatekeeping to keep us old folk out.

Which is fair, we already ruined facebook.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#179

Post by Double_a_92 »

js8 wrote: post #122
tomc1985 wrote: post #93

And this is why software sucks. We should focus on educating users, not stooping to their level GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right. And so on. If one knows the GUI language they can use almost any application for many solutions at a basic…

Also, in really well-designed UI of the past, every menu option had a hint in the status bar, every GUI element had a tool tip, that explained what will happen when you click on it. I find modern applications (especially mobile ones) much harder to discover and use. If you're a teen, you have plenty of time to experiment, but as an adult, I just want to get the work done. Yeah, you could say that I don't want to lear…

I've read somewhere that to some degree apps do that on purpose. The users feel a sense of "pride" when they figure everything out which reduces incentive to switch to a competitor app. Also users can bond over the app while they explain eachother how it works and what little tricks there are. I think Snapchat was the example used in the article that I read.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#180

Post by balfirevic »

michaelmrose wrote: post #132
scarface74 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or I can, drop my car off on the way to work, take the shuttle to work, take Uber home, or bring my laptop with me and earn my living doing what I’ve done for 30 years and pay someone else to do it...

Nobody is arguing with you about what YOU ought to be doing. I personally disagree with this being presented as good general advice to most people who make a lot less.

> Nobody is arguing with you about what YOU ought to be doing

Current subthread started with this: "Yes, unpopular opinion these days, but car owners should really know how to do at least the bare minimum of basic car maintenance"

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